Jason Perry: On this episode of "The Hinckley Report."

With just two weeks to go in the legislative session, lawmakers race against the clock to pass bills.

In the ongoing battle over redistricting, Utah's Republican Party submits signature packets with the hope of impacting the 2026 ballot.

And new polling shows where Utahns stand on critical issues.

male announcer: Funding for "The Hinckley Report" is made possible in part by the Cleone Peterson Eccles Endowment Fund, and by donations to "PBS Utah" from viewers like you.

Thank you.

♪♪♪ ♪♪♪ Jason Perry: Hello, and welcome to "The Hinckley Report."

I'm Jason Perry, Director of the Hinckley Institute of Politics.

Covering the week, we have Heidi Hatch, anchor with "KUTV 2 News;" Representative Steve Eliason, a Republican from Sandy and Parliamentarian in the Utah House; and Andrew Stoddard, Representative and Democrat from Midvale in the Utah House.

Thank you for being with us.

Week five of the legislative session has just ended and so many bills still to discuss.

I want to get to that for just a moment as we get ready to talk about some of them.

Representative Stoddard, it's actually 969 bills have been introduced already, a record for the state of Utah, but only 96 bills have been passed so far.

The math is suggesting we might have a lot to do in the next two weeks.

Andrew Stoddard: I mean, it depends on how you look at it.

I think it's great.

You know, we claim to be a small government state, but then run record numbers of bills every year.

And I think having more floor time, more debate is a good thing, but we keep getting the prod from leadership to hurry things up.

Jason Perry: Yeah, Representative Eliason, we've been hearing that back and forth a little bit now, but the pace definitely does quicken at the end as we start getting those priority bills going forward.

Steve Eliason: Yeah, a great analogy I use is the legislative session is like a marathon.

Everybody starts at the same time, and then nobody really crosses the finish line until a certain point.

And then a whole bunch of people come across, and then the race stops.

And so there's--bills take a journey, and you know, usually most of the--well, always--the vast majority are passed near the end of the session.

Jason Perry: Yeah, I want to get to some of those.

Heidi, you've been watching the process for such a long time, and it's an interesting strategy from some legislators.

I was curious what you think about it, because sometimes some of the more controversial bills come at the beginning.

But lately, we've seen a few of those kind of come up at the end.

Talk about that strategy a little bit, if you think that's what's going to happen again this time.

Heidi Hatch: Yeah, I think oftentimes when you're watching from afar, the ones that get a lot of media attention, you've seen in the last couple of years where some of those bills about transgender students or other, they take a lot of oxygen in the room, but the bills that really matter sometimes are at the end when you're drinking from a fire hose and a lot's happening.

I know that Speaker Schultz had a lot of priorities, one of them judicial, also this gas tax he's been talking about for a long time.

So we're going to start seeing those come through, but it happens quickly.

And that floor debate that I think a lot of people want to see sometimes happens so fast and so quickly that people aren't fully adjusted to the idea once they're passed because so much happens in that 11th hour.

Jason Perry: So true, and definitely start seeing where the priorities really are.

But since you mentioned it, Representative Eliason, let's talk about this gas tax for just a moment.

Are you the official tax person in the House now?

Because you've got several tax bills.

Steve Eliason: I'm the chair of the House Revenue and Taxation Committee and now the lone CPA in the legislature.

Jason Perry: The one CPA.

So as the one CPA, let's talk about this gas tax for just a moment.

It was a priority, we know, of the House for sure, definitely the Speaker.

It's passed the bill, which came out this week, in fact, already came out of committee, and it reduces the gasoline tax in the state of Utah.

Talk about that, $0.06, talk about that for just a minute and what the aim is of reducing that number.

Steve Eliason: Yeah, so Utah's gas taxes are a lot higher than our neighboring states, and the goal was to reduce the gas tax and give Utahns some tax relief.

They realized that our strategy was maybe not as easy as we thought.

Idaho and some other states had some problems with that.

We export more petroleum products than we import, and so we wanted to kind of get our fair share of that.

And there's been a compromise made.

The bill was heard in my committee this week, and it's a temporary one-year decline in the gas tax.

And at this juncture, Idaho hasn't declared war on Utah, so we think that maybe there's some other agreements that have been reached that maybe we'll hear more about in the near future.

Jason Perry: I want to get to the mechanics of that, but Heidi, you're hearing those rumors, too.

Heidi Hatch: Yeah, I had Speaker Schultz on my podcast last year, and he was talking about a possible $0.20 gas tax that we could save money here in Utah.

I think a lot of people were excited about that, but there was a little bit of a war between the Speakers.

The House Speaker in Idaho said that it was bull manure.

Our Speaker used a little dirtier farm words talking back and forth to him.

They were upset because they didn't want to carry the burden if we took that tax break away from refineries, and then they had to carry it in Idaho, because they have got similar gas prices to what we have here in Utah, sometimes higher.

So, I think there's been a little meeting of the minds behind the scenes.

I was talking to the bill's sponsor, and he said that there's been some agreements.

And the $0.06 that they think they can save Utahns was really an agreement that was made with what's going to Utah and maybe what's flowing from Idaho into Utah.

So, maybe some agreements between the gas we're sending and maybe a little water that we need in the return.

Jason Perry: Interesting, I guess we'll see that one.

Let's talk about how this works, Representative Stoddard, because the numbers are--people might not realize, but we have five refineries in the state of Utah producing about 220,000 barrels of fuel a day, and about 75,000 of those go outside to neighboring states.

So, that's kind of what's the heart of what Heidi and Representative Eliason were just talking about.

And Speaker Schultz would like to increase that by another 100,000 barrels a day.

Andrew Stoddard: Yeah, and I think, you know, I think Representative Eliason touched on it.

Like we've got people who are really struggling, and if we can get more of the benefit of having those refineries in our state coming to us, benefiting our citizens, the lower gas tax also benefiting our citizens, that's really what we should be pushing for.

Jason Perry: But some of this money goes to transportation, to the roads, and so there may be a hit this year to some extent on that, is that correct?

Andrew Stoddard: As I understand it, yeah.

Jason Perry: Okay.

Heidi Hatch: So, where are you going to get the $12 million from, I think is the question people are going to be asking, to keep the roads up?

Andrew Stoddard: I think that's a question for the Chair of Revenue and Taxation.

Jason Perry: Yeah, the one CPA in the legislature.

Steve Eliason: Here's the really good news.

Utah just passed an important threshold where we have net debt in Utah.

We have more rainy day reserves than we have bonds, and so our transportation infrastructure account has, I believe, billions of dollars in it.

And so, this temporary price reduction on the gas tax isn't going to stop any road projects.

Jason Perry: Okay, we may as well stay on taxes for just a minute because it looks like we're going to have this income tax reduction.

Will you start us off on that, Representative Eliason?

I'd love all your comments on this because it looks like that's going.

Steve Eliason: Sure, for many years now, the legislature has reduced income taxes, albeit not by significant amounts.

We think it's important to continually try to reduce that rate.

One thing a lot of people don't know is that cities, towns, counties, school districts all have to abide by something called truth-in-taxation.

The legislature doesn't.

So, states, counties, or excuse me, cities and school districts can get the exact same amount of money they got the year before, and if they want any more, they have to have a truth-in-taxation hearing to raise taxes.

The legislature, we get to spend that growth without, quote, "raising taxes."

Utah has been very fortunate because we've been able to lower taxes, increase spending for programs that are important to people, and still give people a modest tax break, which has really made Utah a desirable place for businesses and individuals to relocate.

So trying to continue that tradition of living within our means, balancing our budget, still putting money away for a rainy day reserve, we're looking at a modest tax cut.

Jason Perry: Representative, your view from your side of the aisle on these tax cuts?

Andrew Stoddard: You know, I support tax cuts, but the issue I have is, you know, our state board of education and public schools taking the hit with weeks's notice.

You know, I've talked to our board members, and they're scrambling to figure out what to cut because the legislature came and said, "Hey, 5%."

And I think our educators do great with notice and with what they have, but to give them just a few weeks to figure out what to cut's really hard.

And to see, you know, what this is gonna bring to families, where it's $50 a family, at the expense of our public education is really hard for me to swallow.

Jason Perry: Heidi, what are you hearing about this?

Heidi Hatch: I'm hearing both sides because I think families are tight right now with their budgets.

So, whether it's $45, $50 back in your budget, maybe it helps you go buy three Chipotle burritos instead of, you know, just a couple.

So, I think any money back in people's pockets right now is a good thing.

We're seeing credit card debt going up.

We're seeing more people default on their homes.

So that money is important, but that money doesn't go very far.

So the question is, when you're looking at this, do you want that money to just go back into the budget to maybe help with schools, or does everyone need to tighten their belts, and a little bit is a win for everyone?

Jason Perry: Okay, let's switch gears for a moment.

Some other big news of the week.

Representative Eliason, let's talk about, we're going to talk about ballot initiatives.

We're gonna talk about initiatives, Prop 4 in particular.

And when it comes to our new maps, we talked here on "The Hinckley Report" already about this lawsuit that was brought by Representative Owens and Representative Maloy that was heard this week on Wednesday.

The district court actually heard this case.

Talk about this for just a moment because it has the potential to impact the congressional district boundaries here in Utah.

Steve Eliason: Yes, so there's a case currently before the Supreme Court.

And then this case kind of came out of the blue with half of our congressional House delegation filing suit and listening to the judge's questions.

You know, it's hard to read where they're going to rule.

We expect that ruling to be very, very soon because the deadline is coming up here in just a few weeks for candidates to have to file and for the maps to have to be solidified.

So there's still a lot to come, a lot of controversy, and now we have two different courts that are hearing it.

So, I'll be very anxious to hear where they land.

Jason Perry: Yeah, Representative Stoddard, it's interesting on this because it seemed like the district court judges were saying, "This is not an area we were hoping to get involved in."

Andrew Stoddard: Yeah, and I think that's generally the tendency, is they want to avoid the political thicket, and--.

Jason Perry: That's the word, in fact.

Andrew Stoddard: Yeah, it's one of the few things I remember from law school.

But that, you know, it's hard to see what happened in our state district court, where I think the judge was forced to pick a map based on the process the legislature used in complete violation of Prop 4, but we just need to get it settled so we know what to expect.

Jason Perry: A parallel path to this, Heidi, is, while we're looking at what happens in the court, is, it was a very interesting week in terms of the initiative to repeal Prop 4, because it turns out maybe there's enough signatures.

Talk about that for just a moment because it really came as many--like it was interesting that they were able to get that many signatures as quickly as they did.

Heidi Hatch: I don't think I was as shocked as many when those numbers came in, and we saw the Utah GOP chair walk in and say that they had more than 200,000, possibly as many as 280,000.

I think a lot of people were looking at those surface numbers of what was getting counted, and they were like, "There's no way they can do it.

They'd have to get thousands of signatures a day."

I had been talking to Rob Axson, though, along the way, and he was very guarded with the numbers, always saying that they had a lot more than people realized at home.

And that might have been part of the strategy because it's hard to get more signatures than you need if people think you already have what you need.

But he said they had a delay over the holidays where they wanted clerks to be able to take time off over Christmas, Thanksgiving, and not make them work.

So, they held back ballots for a couple weeks there over the holidays.

They also had a bunch more squirreled away, so I don't think people realize the lag in times once you start signing.

That booklet's got 30 days.

Once you get them turned in, there's another 21-day lag for people to sign.

So, I do think they surprised a lot of people.

Now the big wait to see how many of those will be verified, but it does seem, if their math is correct on the GOP side, that they've got some slush room there for those verifications.

Jason Perry: Very interesting, Representative Eliason, let's talk about this verification process a bit too, what they'll have to do.

It's by March 9 when you have to verify these signatures.

There have to be 140,748, which includes 26 of the 29, 8% and 26 of the 29 Senate districts.

Steve Eliason: In the House of Representatives chamber above the Speaker, it says "Vox Populi," the voice of the people, and this is the voice of the people.

And they'll potentially have an opportunity to weigh in on this.

Many years ago, I ran the bill that created vote by mail, and we've put a lot of robust checks and balances in to make sure that vote by mail is correct, and also that signatures that are part of the vote by mail process are validated.

So, the clerks have got a lot of work to do in a very short amount of time.

And you know, I think a lot of people are surprised.

The people who said it can't be done have been now interrupted by a whole bunch of signature packets that apparently looks like they might cross the threshold.

Jason Perry: Okay, so I have to ask Representative Stoddard, because it's interesting.

Those were kind of trying to see what the boundaries might be.

The Democrats definitely have a candidate that's already got the signatures to run forward.

This is Ben McAdams.

Talk about that just a little bit as well, because people are talking about what happens there.

Maybe it has something to do with this court case also.

Andrew Stoddard: Yeah, and I know that Ben filed something in the district court case to be able to be heard as part of that, and it's fascinating to see how it plays out.

You have a very crowded Democratic field for a district that may or may not exist.

And it's frustrating that it's come down to these redistricting battles across the country.

I hate that the norm of post-census redistricting has been broken, and I hope it's something that we can all shift away from.

Jason Perry: It's interesting, Heidi, I want to go over a poll question that we at The Hinckley Institute just did with the "Deseret News," because we're trying to see where Utahns are on this issue.

As we know, Prop 4 narrowly passed when it went into effect, and so we just asked whether the Utahns would support or oppose eliminating the Independent Redistricting Commission.

And I'll just give you the numbers, and then your comment, because you're interviewing so many people about this.

Overall, the support was 27% support, 32% opposed.

This is eliminating the commission, but 41% of Utahans don't know, which I think we've talked about this a lot.

The news is talking about it a lot, but that's a pretty big number of "don't knows."

Heidi Hatch: Yeah, and I think it's not surprising, because when you sit around a table like this where a lot of people are involved in politics, you're watching news every day, and you really understand what's going on, it kind of seems surprising.

But when you go talk to people, I think a lot of people have questions about what it means.

There's so many moving parts in this, with the courts involved, with the repeal.

I think a lot of people are just like, "I'm a little bit confused."

So no matter what happens moving forward, Republicans and Democrats have a lot of educating to do if this repeal does go, and the referendum onto the ballot in November, where you have to talk to people about why your side matters.

I also think that we've changed our electorate since 2018 as well.

We've had new people move into the state.

We've had more college kids come of age to vote.

So, I think there needs to be a lot more education on this.

We always think people are more educated than they are, but really talk to them about what the issues are, how it works, and what you'd like to see happen.

Jason Perry: Just one more comment from both of you, if you don't mind, from both sides of the aisle.

The support for Republicans was 35%.

The support from Democrats was 33%.

What do you make of that?

Steve Eliason: I think it's demonstrative that a lot of people don't know a lot about this.

Many years ago, our former Governor, Norm Bangerter said, "Steve, when I ran for office, I thought I knew all the answers.

And in hindsight," he says, "I didn't even know the right questions to ask."

And I think as it relates to this particular issue, people are in that same category of like, "I don't understand it as well as I should," and a lot of people are probably trying to figure out what are the right questions to even ask about it.

Jason Perry: And Representative Stoddard, as you answer that question, if this does get on the ballot, the Utahns are gonna have a chance to vote on it in this next election.

Andrew Stoddard: Yeah, I mean, based on the amount of signatures submitted, I assume it'll get on the ballot.

You know, it's hard looking at it now because there's so much misinformation and dark money that's going into these things that I just wish that people would do the effort to find out what's really going on and what it really means for them.

Jason Perry: Okay, I want to get to some bills, and as we get ready to start that, we've been talking a lot about energy in the state of Utah.

And Heidi, it was interesting this weekend, we got a small nuclear test reactor delivered.

Talk about what has happened, because the governor was there.

Utah was talking about this next part of our energy portfolio, potentially.

Heidi Hatch: Yeah, it's been a priority, I think, if you look at the last couple of legislative sessions for Utah, looking at different energy options.

And I think Utah is kind of a leader in that regard, so it was kind of fun watching at Hill Air Force Base as they were receiving that mini reactor.

At the same time, too, I think a lot of people are still nervous about nuclear power, and they're like, "What, we're flying this in?

Is this safe?"

But a lot of dignitaries there, a lot of people excited about what's going to happen.

And I think there are still a lot of questions about how this will work, how Utah can benefit, and what the risks and benefits are, but there's definitely a lot of energy behind this right now, which is kind of a funny word to use.

Jason Perry: It totally is, and on the Republican side of the aisle, this nuclear approach seems to be something that is very much supported.

Steve Eliason: Yes, I was with Senator John Curtis yesterday, and he joined the flight from California to Hill Air Force Base.

Kind of interesting news, if you were to say, "A nuclear device is being flown in on an aircraft."

Luckily, this is a, we believe, a very safe technology, and we're excited to look at that.

Utah is at the leading edge of a lot of energy initiatives, including the FORGE project that the University of Utah is involved with, with geothermal.

And I think we have to continue to look at how we expand our energy portfolio, and as well as keeping power rates low for our citizens and industry.

Jason Perry: Let's get into a couple of bills dealing with the judiciary.

We're going to go back to law school for you on this one, Representative Stoddard.

Two bills already passed.

Two bills already signed.

The first one was, the first bill that Governor Cox signed, was expanding the Utah Supreme Court from five to seven.

So, passed, already put into law based on the governor.

Talk about that for just a minute because we have a suite of bills dealing with the judiciary.

Are we done with it?

Give some thoughts from your side of the aisle.

Andrew Stoddard: Yeah, so the bill that was originally signed, they cited a backlog of Supreme Court cases and just how long it was taking to get decisions, which is not completely accurate.

It's pretty on par with other Supreme Courts in different states.

The real backlog we have is in the district court level, and so I was glad to see the bill change to add more district court judges because I think that's where the real problem is, is we need to speed up things at the very base level.

I didn't vote for the bill.

I don't think it's the right approach, especially when you're telling everyone to, you know, tighten their belts, and we don't have money for anything, and then to have to spend millions of dollars just to remodel the judicial offices to fit these extra justices.

Jason Perry: Yeah, Representative Eliason, let's talk about that.

So, it was three new justices to the district courts, two new to the appellate court, and of course, two new Supreme Court justices.

Steve Eliason: Yeah, so I did vote for the bill, and I didn't want to let perfect be the enemy of good.

If you look at surrounding states, speaking of comparing ourselves to other states, almost every other state our size has at least seven justices, so that kind of puts us on par.

It should help their productivity.

But we--I think one thing everybody agreed on, we needed those lower court positions also.

And unfortunately, you know, it's rare to love a bill 100%.

Sometimes you might like it 51%, so you vote for it.

And in this case, not everybody loved it, but I think that it definitely will serve to deliver justice for all, as we quote every day when we say the pledge, in a more efficient and hopefully faster manner.

Jason Perry: Before we leave it, I just want to do one more poll question that we just finished this week.

And Heidi, it's so interesting, for as controversial as the conversations have been about this particular topic, we asked Utahns if they supported the expansion of the Supreme Court or not, and it was 58% of Utahns supported it, 21% were opposed, 22% don't know.

But it was strong support from the Republicans, 71% stronger support than some of these questions for the Democrats, which was at 42%.

Heidi Hatch: Yeah, I thought they were kind of interesting numbers, but I think a lot of people see these court cases that they're playing out in the headlines.

The wheels of justice turn slowly, and so more voices, more hands working on the issue seems to be something that people are supporting right now.

I know there's some that say, "Hey, this is going to push it in the favor of Republicans or more conservative in the state."

Other people are worried about the opposite, but I think that the process remains the same.

You've got the same governor, the same legislative body that are electing them, putting them into power.

So, I think a lot of people are just hopeful that more people will be more issues getting resolved quicker, because I think there's a lot of issues people care about right now.

Jason Perry: Okay, I want to get to a couple of those issues, too, with some bills, if that's alright.

Let's start with some issues on immigration.

Representative Stoddard, let's talk about this one.

House Bill 88 is getting a lot of attention.

This is Representative Trevor Lee from Davis.

Public assistance amendments which would prohibit undocumented immigrants from accessing state and local funded programs.

Let's talk about that because it's going to be discussed more on the Hill this week.

Andrew Stoddard: Yeah, I don't know how to put this lightly, but it's a garbage bill.

He's claiming it's to save taxpayer money, but there's provisions in the bill that would allow for any taxpayer who is harmed by someone who maybe accidentally gave these benefits to an undocumented immigrant to sue that person, and then the state would have to pay to indemnify and pay the damages.

So, he admitted all this in committee.

It's not fiscally responsible.

He basically stated that he's running the bill so that people who are undocumented are not coming to our state.

Jason Perry: Good comment from this committee, because I know you're watching it very closely, Representative Eliason.

Steve Eliason: Yeah, so I have deep concerns about this bill also.

An area that I've worked on for many years is suicide prevention.

Utah was the genesis of the 988 Suicide Prevention Lifeline.

One question that comes to my mind is, somebody who is in crisis and calls 988, are they first gonna have to decipher what their immigration status is?

I don't think anybody thinks that's reasonable.

So, there's a lot of questions.

The bill did pass committee, not unanimously, and will be coming to the House floor.

I think there will be an extremely robust debate on this bill.

Jason Perry: Okay, I want to talk about a very interesting bill that came out this week, Heidi, if that's okay, from Senator Mike McKell on social media.

His bill is going to tax entities that deliver targeted advertising in the state of Utah.

I mention this because we've seen some of these big companies, you start seeing companies like Google and others actually on the Hill talking about what happens if you start taxing the advertising that's coming through these channels.

Heidi Hatch: This bill is fairly new to me, but I think it's safe to say that social media companies are kind of the collective bad guy.

I think Republicans and Democrats are both not thrilled with them right now.

The governor's been leading the way in trying to figure out ways to control the social media companies.

I think a lot of people are like, "Fine, if they're the rich, tax them on this because they're not the good guys."

But there's also the opposite side of what does it do in return, so I'll be interested to see how this plays out.

But if you were to tax someone, I think most people at this point would say, "Sure, let's Google those guys."

Or Google, "Let's tax Google, Facebook, you know, Meta," all those guys, so.

Jason Perry: Yeah, it's interesting, Representative Eliason, because as they were talking about up there, what the conversation has been, if you put a tax on some of these advertisements, who ends up paying it?

That seems to be something we're talking about.

Steve Eliason: Yes, it is kind of serendipitous because the sponsor, Senator McKell, is also running a bill that's anti-kratom, a product that believe, a lot of people believe can cause health issues.

Well, I texted Senator McKell the other night, and I said, "I was reading the news, and I just got a targeted ad supporting kratom."

And so I don't think it's connected to his bill, but it is kind of uncanny sometimes how targeted that can be.

Heidi Hatch: Your phone's listening during debate.

Steve Eliason: I'll probably get an ad for "The Hinckley Report" later.

Jason Perry: Okay, great, that's what we're paying for, so I'm happy for that.

I want to hear about a couple of bills that you all are working on.

And Representative Stoddard, you have some bills dealing with elections.

Maybe give us a primer on that.

Andrew Stoddard: Yeah, so one of the issues I'm trying to address is vacancies when they happen.

On a municipal level, we have a process set up, and it works great when there's two candidates, but when there are multiple, it doesn't.

You know, in my own city of Midvale, we had 12 rounds of coin tosses to pick our mayor when there was a vacancy.

And then on the legislative level, currently it's filled with the caucus convention pick.

I have a bill that will deal with that, that will allow the caucus convention to pick that.

But then, and whatever election's up next, we will put candidates on there.

You know, we've got Senate seats that have not been filled through a regular election in almost 40 years, and I think it's a problem because the delegates aren't picking people who represent the will of the district.

Jason Perry: Representative Eliason, a bill that you're still watching closely, maybe one of yours that we should know about.

And then Heidi, you're gonna tell us what's going to happen at the end.

Heidi Hatch: Okay.

Steve Eliason: I've got a significant bill on homelessness, an issue that we're continuing to work on, working on criminal justice reform.

We've been partnering with Judge Steven Leifman out of Florida, who did amazing things down there.

And of course, a host of tax bills also.

Jason Perry: Maybe for a second, since you are sort of the one that brought SafeUT, the app that our kids can use if they're having mental health.

You can describe it better than me as well, but you're the one that helped bring this to the state of Utah.

You also have a tweak on that to make sure it's accessible to more Utahns.

Steve Eliason: Yeah, we just celebrated the ten-year anniversary of SafeUT, which is designed for students grades K through 20 and their parents.

It helps prevent school shootings and other issues, as well as allows students in crisis to access mental health treatment 24/7.

This year, there's a bill sponsored by Senator Heidi Balderree that will make sure that those services are also available in Spanish to any user who's needing those.

So any parent who hasn't downloaded it, I would, of a student, I would encourage them to do so.

Jason Perry: Absolutely right.

Heidi, in our last 20 seconds, give us what we're going to see at the end of the session.

Heidi Hatch: I think we're going to see a lot of those hard decisions, the economy that matters to people.

So, we're going to be looking at those tax cuts.

People are going to be feeling at home, how it affects their budget, how it affects the budget of all of our resources across the state, whether it's schools or wherever you work.

So, I think the money in the end is where we're gonna be watching.

Jason Perry: Okay, thank you.

We'll watch closely.

Appreciate your insights, and we appreciate you for watching "The Hinckley Report."

This show is also available as a podcast.

Thank you for being with us.

We'll see you next week.

announcer: Funding for "The Hinckley Report" is made possible in part by the Cleone Peterson Eccles Endowment Fund, and by donations to "PBS Utah" from viewers like you.

Thank you.

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