(bright music) - Hi and welcome.

Thanks for joining us for a conversation about the uncertainty public media and WCMU may be facing in the wake of those devastating federal funding cuts.

What do these cuts mean for local news, music programming, emergency services?

We're going to try and get you some answers.

Here with me now is our general manager, Rick Westover, along with a member of our TV department, Chris Ogozaly.

Thank you so much for joining us.

- Thanks for having us.

- Rick, before we start diving into our questions, is there anything that you would like to share with our supporters, with our audience as we've kind of gone through these last few weeks, months?

- I just want to convey all kinds of thanks, gratitude.

This has been a difficult process for all of us here at WCMU for our viewers and listeners.

And so many of you step forward to reach out to your legislative leaders to ask for support for public media.

You followed up with donations of support.

Just, we wanna start with a thank you to everybody that's gotten involved in this effort and to those that continue to offer support to see us into the future.

- Definitely, thank you.

So then, let's talk about how do we get here and what do we know?

Do we know anything about efforts to maybe get back some of that funding that was cut?

- So, through the course of the early part of the summer, there was an effort to bring forth this rescission package that included the elimination of federal funding for public media that ultimately was passed on July 18th, a tough day, I was up, watched the vote into the wee hours in the morning.

And ultimately, that funding was eliminated.

For WCMU $1.6 million, about 19% of our operating budget here.

There are efforts by some to see funding returned into the budget through the fiscal year 2026 federal appropriations process.

We are so close on the heels of the elimination that I'm not putting a ton of hope into that, but there is an opportunity that some funding could be replaced.

But in the meantime though, we've heard word that the Corporation for Public Broadcasting is winding down their work.

People have heard that the Corporation for Public Broadcasting is planning to close by the beginning of calendar year 2026.

That's simply because they don't have the funds that they need to operate.

There is no purpose for them at this time because they were meant to collect the support offered through the appropriation.

Typically released October 1st.

There is no money to be dispersed.

- Sure.

- There is no need at this time for the Corporation for Public Broadcasting.

However, we, as public media stations, persist and are working diligently to keep our programming coming your way.

- What, with those cuts to CPB, what does that mean for national programs on WCMU?

- It means from time to time some difficult decisions.

We have some room to make some choices on the radio side.

On the television side, though, PBS offers a package of programming.

For us it's about $700,000.

There's not a lot of choice in there about picking and choosing programs.

So what we're working on is hopefully some rescission relief from PBS.

Paula Kerger, who heads PBS has talked about actually providing rescission relief to those stations impacted by these cuts somewhere equivalent to the percentage in their loss.

For the TV side for us, 16, 17%, which could be like some $140,000, somewhere in there, that could come back to us in some relief.

So we're very hopeful for that.

- And Chris, what about local programming?

Will that continue?

- Yeah, we'll make every effort to continue telling local stories.

We're in the middle of our 16th season of Destination Michigan.

We'll have a new episode coming out in the end of September where we'll be able to take viewers to the Upper Peninsula, to the Keweenaw, and to the Soo as well.

We're gonna head south to Ann Arbor to Folk School, where we're going to watch folks make sourdough, and we're gonna learn a little bit about the history of T-Ball.

And that's our 16th season of Destination Michigan.

Right around the corner in early October, we'll, welcome back the folks from the Department of Natural Resources and we'll ask the DNR again.

So folks will have the opportunity, like they have for the last many decades, to call and get their questions answered about hunting and fishing and the outdoors.

Not too long after that, in later October, we'll premiere another episode of Pressing Matters, which focuses on issues that matter to all our residents.

And we're gonna take a look at sports injuries and we're gonna take a look at what goes on in hospice care, all very important issues that ring true to folks all around our state.

- Absolutely.

- And I just want to add to that the importance of this local content 'cause it's really what sets us apart from other public media stations out there.

And kudos to the TV crew here at WCMU.

In fact, I'm on set with half of our production crew.

It's a team of four that does all of this incredible work, so thank you for what you do.

- Thank you.

Are there discussions about collaborations or partnerships between WCMU and other public media stations?

- There have been times where we've partnered with university entities here to do some work about some STEM related stories that end up premiering on the Michigan Learning Channel.

- That's right, Michigan Learning Channel is an effort by all of the public television stations in the state, collectively making this resource available to parents, teachers, and the kids out there that need this content to help supplement their education.

Also, the Michigan Public Radio Network is something that we lean into as well.

Radio stations across the state that provide news stories so that we have a better picture of the state beyond what we can do alone in our own newsroom.

So collaborations exist in that way.

And then I was just in a meeting with the Michigan Association of Public Broadcasters, all the public media stations in the state, just earlier in August.

And we're just really starting some conversations about efficiencies and ways that we can kind of share costs if possible.

So those talks continue.

- What kind of resources are available that keep education on the forefront of our mission?

You mentioned the Michigan Learning Channel, but what other resources are there available?

- PBS kids, obviously, PBS Learning Media, our WCMU app has a lot of educational opportunities there.

You know, you worry about your kid being on a device too much or playing too many games, but these are educational games that make that screen time valuable learning time as well.

- Absolutely, they've been studied, they've been researched, you know, they show positive results for kids.

- Exactly.

- Thank you, Rick.

We do have a viewer question.

This is from Pearson.

His question is, "How has WCMU responded to the recent shakeups and are there future plans for additions, cuts, or changes to local PBS stations?"

He also adds, "I've been watching PBS on WCMU since I was a small child.

I start off with PBS Kids, now enjoying the historical documentaries and the Michigan Features, Michigan Out of Doors."

They add that they hope WCMU, which has provided joy and education for so many years, can continue to flourish.

- Thank you for the question, Pears.

And thank you for watching and learning with us for all these years, I love that.

And if you're able, offer your support, that's gonna be key moving forward.

I've mentioned at some point along the way that, you know, we've lost $1.6 million in funding, but last year, $3.2 million in support came from our viewers and listeners.

If we can have everybody that gave last year increase their gift by 50%, that loss is gone, like, we've covered it.

Now, I realize not everybody can do that, but where you can, give what you can.

- Sure.

- May we have to make some difficult decisions.

That's not off the table.

We have to look at every opportunity to make sure that we're here bringing you programming that's valuable to you and your community.

We don't wanna make those tough decisions, but we may be put in those situations from time to time with this loss.

So know that we are looking at the value these programs bring to you.

Also looking at their cost, looking at the support that comes in around them, and really trying to make, you know, well thought out decisions when we have to impact the schedule.

- Rick and Chris...

Thank you for joining us, Chris.

That covers our TV side.

Next we're gonna take a look at how these cuts might impact our radio department.

Stay with us, we'll be right back.

(bright music) Welcome back to Ask WCMU.

I'm joined now by two members from our radio department, Mike Horace and Rick Brewer.

Thank you both for being here.

- Glad to be here.

- Good to be with you.

- We're talking about those federal funding cuts.

How might those impact programming on WCMU radio?

- Well, a lot of it's unknown right now.

We're looking at about $450,000 in programming costs for this fiscal year on the radio side.

And this is for programs, everything for Morning Edition and All Things Considered to Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me, The Splendid Table, and this American Life.

We're in negotiations with all of our network partners right now, trying to get some reduced fees.

But if those negotiations are not successful, we'll have no choice but to make some difficult programming decisions and reign in some of those costs.

- Got it.

Rick, what separates local public radio from National NPR programs and where do those shows come from?

- So we have 17 local newscasts a day, and we're a part of what's called the Michigan Public Radio Network.

So we get stories from the Lansing Bureau.

We have two reporters that are stationed at the state capitol.

We have reporters from other public radio stations as far north as Marquette, as far south as Detroit that contribute to the network.

But we have a team of local news reporters here in our own newsroom, but we primarily are covering Central and Northern Michigan news.

Everything from PFOS contamination to other environmental issues to the Soo Locks up in Sault Ste.

Marie to corrections issues.

So it really runs the gamut in our newsroom, reporting on issues that are important to listeners across Central and Northern Michigan.

- And for all of those programs, you hear them in shows that are a mix of national, international, and local.

If you look at a show like Morning Edition, for example, about 38 to 42 minutes per hour is coming from the national network.

And the remainder comes from our studios right here in Mount Pleasant, telling stories from communities all across the state of Michigan.

- That's a lot of coverage of our local region.

So thank you for all that you guys do.

Can you provide examples on your efforts to avoid bias?

- Yeah, I'm happy to take that one, Stefanie.

So, I mean, the biggest thing with bias is making sure that we have as many different perspectives on a story as possible.

That's number one.

The classic example that people may always cite is a political issue, of course.

Are we only talking to one set of people?

Are we only talking to one point of view?

So the key there is what I push in the newsroom is very simple.

Are we talking to the maximum amount of people we can talk to?

And if we aren't being able to get a hold of those people, who else can provide that perspective and exhausting that effort as much as we can.

And having some reflection time when I'm in one-on-ones with reporters, are we being one sided and doing that own self-check on ourselves?

And so, we follow a pretty rigorous code of ethics from NPR and we wanna make sure that we're accurate.

We wanna make sure that we're not jumping to conclusions.

So often in our news environment, we like to just kind of knee jerk reaction when I get the story out.

I would rather us be correct and be transparent.

These are the facts as we know them.

As we learn more information, we will provide that information to you in a timely manner.

Just like the ice storm that we were covering during March, I know the newsroom, we were very methodical and slow.

Make sure that we had the most accurate information to people as possible.

And we don't want to scare anybody, for example, in times of emergency and things of that nature.

- Definitely, thank you.

Mike, can you talk about music rights and how do they work?

What kind of costs are associated with those?

- Yeah, absolutely.

So every piece of music you hear on WCMU, whether it's on radio, whether it's on TV, it has to have a music license tied to it if we're airing more than 30 seconds of that song or that composition.

And traditionally, that has all been paid for using federal funds from the Corporation for Public Broadcasting.

Now that those federal funds are gone, we expect a lot of those costs will eventually be passed on to local stations.

CPB right now has music contracts for us going out several years, but they're not necessarily paid for.

So they're using all available funds they have to try to secure those music royalties as far out as possible.

We know that that cost will come back to us at some point, but we don't know what the cost is going to be yet because we've never had to negotiate those kind of rights.

So it's one of those unknowns right now.

And depending on how significant those costs are, we may have to find efficiencies elsewhere, or other areas where we could trim our budget.

- Got it.

Rick, can you talk about our students, what role do they play and how will that continue?

- The students play a critical role here in the newsroom.

We, during the academic year, have four students working for us in the newsroom.

About 25 hours a week is what we give them in the newsroom.

During the summer we run a summer internship reporting program that we have also about four, sometimes five students, that are stationed all across Central and Northern Michigan, especially in the summer.

So we had a student in Freeland the summer.

We had a student in Alpena in Traverse City.

We had partnerships with local newspapers.

And essentially, we could not do what we do without our student reporters.

And they're all from the journalism and broadcast school here at Central.

And so we want to, we are looking to continue that relationship to build the next generation of young journalists.

- Yeah.

- And we also have on air students on the radio side, acting as local hosts.

So you hear them every weekday evening, and you hear them all throughout the day on weekends.

And that role's going to continue.

They're the ones that are with us throughout our programming, bringing weather emergency information and whatnot to our listeners every day.

They will continue to be there.

- What a unique opportunity that we provide for students to actually be on the air that- - It really isn't.

So many members of our full-time staff started here as students 10, 20, 30 years ago in some cases.

- Very cool.

Last question, will emergency services and local radio be impacted here in Central and Northern Michigan?

- We are doing everything we can to maintain our public service mission, which includes broadcasting those emergency alerts.

WCMU has a really unique role in the Central Michigan area.

We're what's called a local primary station.

We produce and send out the alerts that are broadcast by every other station in the area.

We're also a statewide relay.

So alerts that come from Washington or Lansing, they are broadcast by us, and stations all the way up to Sault Ste.

Marie, pick them up based on our signal.

That is a very important thing for our station to be doing.

It's been lifesaving in the past.

I'm thinking about the Midland floods or the Gaylord tornado.

Those alerts literally save lives and we are not gonna back down from that commitment.

- Thank you, Mike.

Thank you, Rick.

Thank you both for being here today.

(bright music) Welcome back, joining us now is director of our engineering department, Fred Bennett.

Fred, thank you for joining us.

- Thanks for having me.

- Fred, there's a lot of talk about how these cuts might impact investments and content, technology, training, and upgrades.

What are your thoughts on that?

- Well, in the engineering department, it'll affect all of those things.

For us, we've already put on hold some plans to do equipment upgrades.

Instead, we'll have to just focus on doing repairs of the equipment we already have, though we have some difficulties there too.

And that some of the equipment is aging and replacement parts are scarce.

It's not an ideal situation, but it's a problem we have to face.

- WCMU, we have one of the largest geographic coverage areas in the country.

How are we able to get our signal to so many places?

- Sure, we have 11 transmitter sites that house our eight radio and four television stations.

And in addition to those, we have hop sites, a chain of hop sites in between, that give us end-to-end control of the signal path that we use to distribute microwave audio and video signals to get the signals from the studio here to those sites.

In addition to that, we use internet in places where we can get reliable fast internet as well.

- [Stefanie] Yeah.

- I just wanna impress upon folks too, how large this coverage area is.

We're talking 46 counties of the 83 here in the state, over half the state of Michigan from Lansing to Sault Ste.

Marie, Lake Huron over to Lake Michigan.

What was it, 30,000 square miles?

- [Fred] More than 30,000 square miles of coverage area.

- And how many people are on your team?

- We have eight people on the engineering department.

- Pretty incredible what they do, so thank you.

- Yes, thank you, Fred.

How may the station's reliability be impacted?

- Well, that's where a lot of my thoughts are right now, actually, is trying to figure out how we can, weather these cuts in this budget change without impacting reliability too much.

The reality is we're gonna take some gambles with that reliability.

We're looking at reducing or possibly eliminating some of the third party agreements we have with our vendors that provide us support so that we have access to experts in that technology when we do have a problem.

But it's just a gamble we have to take.

We saved some of the money and take that in-house as best we can when those things happen.

- Definitely.

Well, by far, we've talked about this often, WCMU's biggest expense is within our engineering department.

But again, your team really does do exceptional work.

You worked tirelessly to provide coverage, seamless coverage, across our region to our viewers, our listeners, and our online audiences.

But again, that all comes with a big cost.

Can you break those down for us?

- Sure, WCMU has equipment in 19 sites spread across that 30,000 square mile viewing area and listening area.

Each of those sites have equipment in it that needs hands-on attention from engineers.

So we have people traveling every day to maintain that equipment.

Each of those sites also comes with recurring costs like internet, electricity, generator fuel for to weather those emergencies, as well as lease expenses for sites we don't own.

And the sites we do own has tower and building maintenance as well.

So while we're facing ever increasing costs, we have to look at how we can manage those now.

- Sure, well, Fred, thank you for all that you and your team do for WCMU.

(bright music) We are back now with director of development, Shannon French.

Shannon, thank you for being here.

- Thank you for having me.

We're going to, first start off, you know, what would you like to say to our donors and supporters who have really stepped up these last few weeks?

- Thank you, I mean, we've had tremendous support and it has been just amazing to see how many people have reached out to support us and to encourage us and continue to do that.

- Absolutely.

Our budget structure, can you explain how our current budget structure works?

- So our goal, obviously, is to provide valuable programming to our audience.

And so, with that, recognizing that we have very few revenue sources with the majority of that coming from our donors, we're very conservative in our budgeting.

- Yeah.

- Which has been helpful as we've approached this elimination of the CPB funding, which is about 19% of that.

However, we do need to be very careful in our expenditures this year and really looking at our costs.

- How much support do we get from Central Michigan University?

- So our revenue stream, we have 40% that comes from our donors and 34% that comes from CMU appropriations.

And then the... And this is on average, and then the 20% that comes from CPB, and then about 6% that comes from other small sources.

So looking at that, we obviously have to be able to close that gap of the loss of the, or elimination of the CPB funding.

We do have some endowments and we have some other opportunities to dip into, but obviously those are things that we do not want to resort to.

- Sure.

What kind of funding strategies are being implemented to help offset those funding cuts?

- So we have our typical campaigns and TV radio membership drives.

We have our digital drives and those things.

But then in addition to that, right now we're really focusing on looking at our grants and our corporate sponsorships and really seeing if we can get some multi-year commitments with that.

We also have producers circle that has previously been established that we're bringing back, which adds donor benefits.

And then one of our main goals is recognizing the importance of our sustaining members is this year we're gonna focus on trying to bring in 3000 new sustaining members.

- And giving that consistent monthly support right now is so meaningful because, you know, these are really uncertain times with the loss of that federal funding and that provides a little bit of certainty.

So sustaining membership is really important.

And I wanna point out something too that that 20% that we lost in federal funding, $1.6 million, we also raised $3.2 million from our donors last year.

- Yeah, wow.

- So a nice easy way to look at that is if you gave last year and could give 50% more, that gap is gone.

Now I realize not everybody can do that.

If you can, thank you.

If you have the means to give more, thank you, because you're helping cover for somebody else, but also looking for those new donors.

It'll be very meaningful this year.

- Definitely.

Can you both explain the importance of corporate support and philanthropy along with those ongoing efforts to reach younger generations?

- Sure, corporate support is key out into our communities.

These are businesses, like-minded, that believe in the mission of public media, and often we're looking for corporations that, you know, have a mission aligning with ours.

- Yeah, so I think this is really an area also that we have to grow in.

I think that for us to be able to get out there and connect with businesses and create those partnerships that have a similar mission and will be helpful, we have very affluent listeners that are out there.

And for these businesses to get in front of them in the 44 counties that we serve and have an opportunity to do that, I think is a tremendous thing that we need to expand on.

- Yeah, now there are many different ways that people can support WCMU.

Besides those monetary donations, what else?

- We have stock options, car and land donations.

They have qualified charitable contributions.

There's lots of other ways to support.

You can go out to our website, wcmu.org.

We also have people that can help you in house that if you call our number, they can help you if you have any questions about whether or not it's something that would be relatable.

- Give us a call.

We're always happy to talk to you about those options as well.

- Definitely.

I wanna get to a couple of online questions that we're submitted ahead of this program.

This is from Susan.

She's concerned about public media being defunded.

Can you please explain how much average donations are and what amount will be necessary to keep the station in operation?

I cannot always donate, but can reach out to others who may be in better shape.

At this time, I rely on public media, not only for entertainment, but for news and honesty.

Susan, thank you for your question.

But how can you guys answer that?

- First of all, I'd like to thank Susan for supporting us.

- Yeah.

- And then as of right now, looking at the data, our average contribution coming in is about $40.

That's including new members and current members.

But really what we're focusing on is bringing in those new sustaining members.

And like Rick had previously said, recognizing that not everyone can give.

We appreciate any support that we can get.

- That's right, so if you've got the means to give a little bit more to cover for somebody that might not be able to right now, we welcome that gift at whatever dollar amount.

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

3.2 million came in last year from our donors.

If we could push that to 3.8, 4, somewhere in that range, we'll be in a good place.

- Sure.

And one more online question from Timothy.

As a sustaining member, my question is, "When is the best time to double my current monthly contribution?

My thought was to wait for a double match in the fall fund drive, and also they would like our website to make it easier to increase their monthly contribution.

So when is the best time to increase that contribution?

- Right now.

- Right now.

- Right now, as soon as possible.

- Awesome.

0 And we do have upgrades that are coming to our website that will include a button for sustaining members to upgrade, And for new member, new sustaining members to join us.

- Great.

- Timothy, think about that.

If you start your monthly giving now that support we have now, sure, there may be a match and a drive later on, but somebody else can take advantage of that opportunity too.

It's just all about working together and giving when we can.

So if you can give now, we ask you to give now.

- Great, thank you.

- Thank you.

Thank you for joining us, Shannon.

We'll be right back.

(bright music) WCMU and public media have been defunded federally, but not defeated.

Times are uncertain, but this could also be seen as an opportunity for change.

Rick, as we finish up the segment, what would you like to share with our audience now as we look to the future?

- Yeah, thank you very much.

And again, thank you to everybody that's offering their support out there.

We do appreciate it.

The headwinds are strong, but as they say, you know, you raise your sales and you turn and you can find new opportunities in difficult times.

We could be more efficient, stronger, work better with our cohorts across the state and the country.

We could be a stronger network by the time we make our way through all of this.

I do want to note for folks that, you know, incredible support has been coming through, donations year over year are up 80% as of this taping.

We wanna see that continue.

It's necessary that that continues.

But we're looking for other avenues for revenue and ways to save.

And together, together, we're gonna see our way through.

And I just want to thank this incredible team here that's making it all possible.

And again, to you, our viewers and our listeners that are gonna be there to see us into the future.

- Absolutely, thank you all for watching.

Again, to support WCMU, you can always go to our website, wcmu.org and click on Donate.

Thank you.

(bright music)