>> Speaker 1: Northwest Now is supported, in part, by viewers like you.

Thank you.

>> Tom Layson: In record time, vaccines for the novel coronavirus are approved for use, but there are early signs of trouble with distribution.

Contributing reporter Linda Byron brings us an early look at the distribution efforts and the healthcare workers getting the shot.

The UW's Dr. Christopher Sandford talks about the problems with the anti-vaxx movement and the vaccine hesitancy that results.

Contributing reporter Megan Murnane with one healthcare worker's story of helping the sick and the relief of getting a shot.

And an interview with Pierce County Health about the importance of vaccinations and the local rollout.

The rollout of the coronavirus vaccine is our focus on Northwest Now.

[ Music ] The data lags behind by about a week, but as of January 7th, only about 26% of all the vaccinations in hand in Washington state had been injected.

Not surprisingly, Washington's healthcare providers have inoculated their people in days, but it's heading into phase 1B and beyond where there are signs of potential trouble.

The state is rolling out a vaccine dashboard to track progress.

And if you keep your eye on the State Department of Health's website to use the phase-finder tool that will be rolled out next week, you might be able to at least get a general sense of when you might be able to get a legal shot, if not exactly where.

Meanwhile, King County is investing about $7 million of its own local budget to try to boost a mass-vaccination effort, but most observers agree the federal plan has failed that just about every step, from detection to testing to distribution and state and local funding.

And get this, for better or worse, a lot of it falls on CVS and Walgreens, private businesses tasked with fighting a national war where the death toll now approaches an almost unbelievable 400,000 people.

As Northwest Now contributor Linda Byron tells us, at least the people fighting on the front lines and risking the wellbeing of their families are finally starting to get vaccinated.

J >> Speaker 2: Just excited about getting it.

Not nervous about the needle.

>> Ms. Esquinasi: Oh, no, no, no.

Not at all.

>> Linda Byron: As dawn breaks.

>> Speaker 3: Have you had any reactions to vaccines in the past?

>> Linda Byron: Healthcare workers line up at Evergreen Health in Kirkland to get their first dose of COVID vaccine.

>> Ms. Esquinasi: It feels really good, because I'm glad that we can start to move forward and hopefully see an end to the pandemic.

>> Speaker 2: I'm going to need you to relax your arm way down.

>> Linda Byron: Two days before Christmas, Evergreen's first batch of Moderna vaccine arrived and it was all hands on deck, from nurses to the chief medical officer, himself.

>> Dr. Palazzo: It was a really exciting time.

It was fun to be able to be there those first nights, offer vaccine, be a vaccinator myself.

I think I've done probably about 60, 70 vaccines for healthcare workers.

>> Linda Byron: There was no stopping for holidays.

>> Dr. Palazzo: I received my vaccine on Christmas Eve night.

It did indeed feel like a great Christmas present.

>> Linda Byron: Evergreen isn't just any hospital.

It's located a mile and a half from the nursing home that emerged in February as the epicenter of America's COVID-19 outbreak.

>> Dr. Palazzo: Looking back now, it does seem a little surreal.

>> Linda Byron: What doctors had been planning for as a remote possibility was suddenly inside their walls.

>> Dr. Palazzo: At the time, it seemed like a shot in the dark, more of a preparation for what we thought would be coming, not that we would actually identify two cases, and then what turned out to be the start of the pandemic.

>> Linda Byron: COVID-19 was vicious and unrelenting.

>> Dr. Palazzo: We were getting on the order of 15 to 20 patients a week leading to a census of almost 60 COVID patients at one time here at the hospital.

>> Linda Byron: It was a frightening time to be in contact with patients.

>> Ms. Esquinasi: Some of my coworkers that had pre-existing conditions or were in the older spectrum of our profession chose to retire, not work.

So that's had a big impact on just our team dynamics, and it starts to make you question whether you should be out there, too.

>> Linda Byron: Cindy Esquinasi held out hope a vaccine was on its way, even as she continued doing physical therapy with patients in homes, clinics, and community centers.

>> Speaker 2: Do you want me to count down at?

>> Ms. Esquinasi: That's okay.

>> Linda Byron: For Cindy, getting the shot is everything.

>> Ms. Esquinasi: I hope it means going back to what's normal.

My husband and I have three kids.

I have a freshman in college who missed her prom and missed her graduation, and I'm really hopeful everyone could get back to normal.

>> Linda Byron: Evergreen is getting close to vaccinating 500 people a day and so far, the state health department is sending as much as they ask for.

It's a similar story at neighboring Overlake, seven miles south in Bellevue.

Overlake has vaccinated nearly half its staff, along with first responders, including Bellevue firefighters.

>> Mr. Oakes: This is how many we did in our first seven days.

>> Linda Byron: And no one is taking it for granted.

>> Mr. Oakes: I have staff that will show up here, the relief is on their face, they're in tears.

I've got nurses in the clinic administering vaccinations who are talking about being part of something historic.

It's exciting.

>> Speaker 4: So just sign the back of it.

>> Linda Byron: Nimisha Goyal's vaccination comes just hours after she was treating patients on the COVID ward.

>> Nimisha Goyal: Huge.

I mean, when this first started, I think for the first month or so I did not hug my kids.

So yeah, it's huge, emotionally I think it's huge.

>> Linda Byron: Overlake was more than ready when the Pfizer vaccine arrived December 23rd.

They're also getting all the vaccine they request.

>> Mr. Oakes: There's a lot of people that need to be vaccinated, and it's going to take a while to get through everybody, but we will get through everybody.

>> Linda Byron: They'll do it just like they've managed COVID, by choosing hope over despair.

>> Mr. Oakes: Any time we lose a patient, any time we lose a member of our community, it's hard.

There's also been wonderful times of celebration.

We actually hold celebrations for patients and their families when they leave the hospital after dealing with COVID and we line the halls, the staff line the halls and applaud folk.

>> Linda Byron: Now they're finally applauding the arrival of a weapon that puts them on the offensive after months of being on the defensive.

>> Mr. Oakes: I want this over.

This is personal.

This is my community.

You are my family.

You are the people we are here to take care of.

That's why I'm in healthcare.

So yeah.

I have grandkids.

I have my children that live in this area.

Yeah, it's all about you guys.

It's all about getting us through this.

>> Linda Byron: I hope you're getting a lot of thank-yous.

>> Mr. Oakes: The thank you is seeing people get the jab in the arm and getting the vaccine.

>> Speaker 5: Beautiful, barely felt it.

Thank you.

>> Speaker 6: You're welcome.

>> Linda Byron: For Northwest Now, I'm Linda Byron.

>> Tom Layson: Meanwhile, the anti-vaxxers are on the warpath against the COVID vaccine, and what's remarkable is that studies indicate that anywhere between 40 and 60% of healthcare workers are vaccine hesitant.

Joining us now is Dr. Christopher Sanford, UW Associate Professor of Global Health and a practicing physician.

Dr. Sanford, thanks for joining us on Northwest Now.

Let's talk a little bit about a phenomena [phonetic] that I'm sure you've heard of, healthcare worker vaccine hesitancy.

I know healthcare worker describes a broad range of education and skill levels, but even so, were you a little surprised by this hesitancy, and how do you explain it?

>> Dr. Sanford: Yes, I was, and I have difficulty explaining it.

I've always been aware that there's been a small number of healthcare workers who have been, for example, anti-flu shot, but fortunately it's been a tiny minority.

Basically, if you're a healthcare worker in the US, this means you've been through a fairly standardized education which basically buys into Western medicine and statistics, which very strongly supports vaccines.

So when I've heard the occasional nurse or other person say, "I'm anti-flu shot," I've been startled, but that's been very rare.

It appears to be more common currently with healthcare workers and COVID, and I'm very startled by that.

I'm also somewhat appalled by it because there's a rule in medicine.

The first thing we're taught as medical students is primum non nocere.

First of all, do no harm.

And if my mom goes and sees her doctor or nurse, I don't want that person giving her COVID because they have a personal belief against vaccines.

And so we can get to the issue later of compulsory vaccination, but I would be in favor of it, to divert a little bit from your question, towards it being obligatory for healthcare people.

I don't know if I can explain it.

I assume it's just fear of the unknown.

This vaccine was rushed, but I'm somewhat appalled that it's such a significant factor currently.

>> Tom Layson: I want to read you a quote.

This is in The Atlantic magazine.

Renée DiResta wrote this.

She's the technical research manager at the Stanford Internet Observatory, and she writes, quote, today's anti-vaccine activists enjoy a speed, scale, and reach.

Bottom-up, networked activism is driving the spread of anti-vaccine COVID-19 propaganda.

Americans are about to see a deluge of tweets, posts, and snarky memes that will attempt to erode trust in the vaccination rollouts.

Society's ability to return to a semblance of normalcy depends on how effectively public health authorities counter this misinformation, and how assiduously media outlets and internet platforms refrain from amplifying it.

But also on whether average Americans recognize that the material they click on and share has real-world consequences.

That leads me into this question for you, and we've talked about this before.

Has social media finally allowed the deadly, in my opinion, anti-vaxx agenda to come home to roost?

>> Dr. Sanford: Certainly, it's amplified it.

There has always been an anti-vaccine feeling, even going back 200 years and beyond there's been an anti-vaccine feeling, and I'm afraid that in our current political climate it has deteriorated into an us versus them, which I'm really sorry to see.

So yeah, social media has been contributory, but this division existed well before social media.

What I would like to see is avoiding the us versus them.

I don't like to vilify people who don't agree with me.

Even though I personally am very strongly pro-vaccine, I don't think the anti-vaccine people are monolithic in their beliefs and I don't think they're evil people.

And so indeed, there is going to be a need for the media and the public health to stress the benefit of vaccines, but no one side is going to get their way in entirety on this issue.

>> Tom Layson: Do you think we're possibly getting past the point of no return in terms of being able to avoid the virus, even with precautions?

Could this thing get rolling so hard and heavy that it simply overwhelms the vaccination effort and in a population of 320, 330 million people, we actually lose the opportunity in this first wave of disease to inoculate against it?

That's something I'm a little worried about.

>> Dr. Sanford: It's already gotten huge, and I think it's going to get a lot bigger, which scares me to say, but I think is the unfortunate reality of it.

I think this is due to a number of reasons.

I'm very happy the vaccine is out.

They developed this vaccine incredibly quickly, relative to how long vaccines usually take and also relative to vaccines, this not only is a good vaccine, this is an excellent vaccine.

Both the Pfizer and Moderna have levels of protection that are higher than most vaccines provide for most diseases.

So the good news is we very quickly got a very good vaccine, but it took a year to do.

The virus is widespread in the US and around the world.

And so yeah, it's going to be even a bigger deal and a lot more people are going to die.

I don't think it's going to change, you know, the progress of human people on Earth, but it's huge.

And yeah, this is not something that we're going to stomp out in a short number of weeks.

>> Tom Layson: This is something that came and seems to have gone pretty quickly, but I wanted to discuss it with you, too.

Two UW vaccine experts wrote a paper recommending against, or recommending in favor, I should say, of single doses.

Others then chimed in with ideas about reducing first doses or delaying second doses.

You don't have to say this, but I'm going to.

It seems shockingly anti-science to me, as well, on the other side, because this all hit just as we're trying to explain to the public the rigor of clinical trials and the refusal to make decisions in a rushed way to overcome problems, the validity and power of science.

I was shocked by that.

What was your reaction to some of those recommendations?

>> Dr. Sanford: By and large, I'm with you.

What has been shown in studies is if you get two doses at a certain schedule, there's high protection.

However, what hasn't been shown is the protection from one dose, and if they can start doing antibody studies and show a good level after one dose, or if they can show a good antibody level after a reduced dose, then I think that that's, then maybe we can change things.

But with what we know now, I think we need to act on the data we have, which is that there's a lot of benefit from getting two doses.

And just as you say, this thing already is rushed, and so to start taking hopeful guesses based on the benefit of one dose, I think, is premature and potentially quite harmful.

>> Tom Layson: One thing we don't know, as well, is the vaccine's impact on transmissibility, so in other words, if I get the vaccine and I'm feeling all great about things, well, no, there is still a chance I could be asymptomatic or have enough to get somebody else ill. And they've talked about continuing with masking and hand washing.

I wanted to talk to you a little bit about the ethics of human-challenge trials, because the way to answer that question is to expose people with the vaccine and see if they're shedding virus.

What are some of the ethics there?

It seems like a no-brainer.

Put them in a room and see what happens, but it's not that simple, is it?

>> Dr. Sanford: Of course not, of course not.

You're asking some difficult questions.

Of course, I don't have an easy answer to that.

You really want the data, and it's really unethical to make healthy people sick to get data.

It could be done in a controlled way with volunteers, as it was with the vaccine trials, but you need to be very careful with that.

You're taking healthy people and exposing them to a potentially fatal illness.

So I think that you need to do it with full transparency and with people's permission on people who are healthy and are less likely to get serious ill with it.

Having said that, that's really needed information.

We really need to find out answers to questions like that.

>> Tom Layson: I'm going to take your temperature here in our last 60 seconds, optimistic, hopefully optimistic, a little pessimistic, how do you feel about how things are going and our eventually ability to put a nail in the coffin of COVID?

>> Dr. Sanford: I think with the change in national politics that we're seeing very soon, which is going to allow a more centralized federal approach, and with the vaccine, my six-month outlook is very favorable.

My one-month outlook is, I'm somewhat frightened of what we're going to see in the coming month.

>> Tom Layson: Right, because we've got the Christmas peak coming, the New-Year peak coming, which are peaks on top of peaks in an already overwhelmed healthcare system.

>> Dr. Sanford: And we haven't pushed out the vaccine, really, yet, other than to healthcare people, yet.

So I think it's going to be an ugly winter, but I think that as more people get vaccinated, and I think the rate of people who are going to accept the vaccine is going to go up as they see that more and more people have had it and are doing well.

>> Tom Layson: Dr. Sanford, thanks so much for your time on Northwest Now.

You're a very valued guest on this program and I appreciate you speaking frankly about some of these issues, thank you.

>> Dr. Sanford: Tom, thank you much.

Take care.

>> Tom Layson: We've talked about healthcare workers who are hesitant to take the vaccine.

Northwest Now, contributor Megan Murnane now introduces us to one who was, until the reality of COVID-19 hit very close to home.

>> Ms. Groll: This has actually helped in distracting the kids, so sometimes even just getting their vitals, like a blood pressure, can be a little scary.

I'm Caitlin Groll and I am an emergency services technician at Mary Bridge Children's Hospital in the emergency department.

It's really great to be working with, like, the same community that I grew up with.

You definitely are helping people, your neighbors, the community.

It's definitely a Community Hospital.

And then they, you know, smile, so it's kind of nice.

It's, you know, just a work badge, but it does a lot.

In 2011, I was 17 and I found a weird mole on my back.

I had skin cancer at 17 and my initial experience with the staff that took care of me was not extremely pleasant.

Think back to when you were 17, right?

That's, like, really young to be getting big news like that.

And so I thought, you know, why aren't we taking better care of our pediatric population?

And that's something I can definitely say we do at Mary Bridge.

>> Megan Murnane: You're a frontline worker.

How's it been?

>> Ms. Groll: It's been a little, you know, scary at times.

The ER, you kind of get a little bit of everything.

You get your broken bones, but even sometimes your broken bone, you know, kids, they may not be experiencing any symptoms, and yet they may come back COVID positive.

Do little rhinestones on my face, you know.

Say, oh, look, there's a clown.

For, like, the first four months I didn't see any friends or family?

I was just, yeah, I mean, it's a little lonely, but it was definitely worth it.

You know, I have immunocompromised grandparents and I wouldn't want to put them in jeopardy.

>> Megan Murnane: You guys found out that you'd be getting the vaccine and administering the vaccine.

Where were you working when you found that out?

>> Ms. Groll: So going into work that night before I knew any of that, my dad actually called me and he told me that he came up COVID positive and it was just kind of, like, whoa, I hadn't really known somebody that close to me yet that had gotten it, thankfully.

But it was kind of even more of an eye opener and it kind of made me even more so want to get the vaccine.

>> Megan Murnane: That's a very, I think, monumental decision.

>> Ms. Groll: Yeah, thank you.

Yeah, it felt that way.

So.

And it was kind of one of those things where at first, you know, you have your small doubts and then after that, it was, like, no second thoughts.

I, like, was all in.

>> Megan Murnane: Did it surprise you how emotional it made you feel, getting that shot in your arm?

>> Ms. Groll: A little.

It was kind of one of those things where you, like, almost well up because of it.

You're, like, whoa, this is kind of a big deal.

I had posted a photo of myself receiving the vaccine and the little card that you get, and I said, "Anybody see this and become a tiny bit emotional?

The happy kind.

Maybe it's just the post-night-shift exhaustion."

I was really tired.

"Last night I got the COVID-19 vaccine after working the vaccine clinic, and in 19 to 23 days I'll be receiving my second dose.

It's a pretty monumental an empowering feeling.

I am thankful for my coworkers and other professionals who have been there since pandemic day one.

I am thankful to be offered the opportunity to move forward in the fight."

"This is a decision I made for my community, the patients we see, for the fallen, for my family and friends, and for myself.

I can't wait to hug you all again, but for now, let's continue to be safe.

Hopeful for the future, 2020 continues to rewrite history."

>> Tom Layson: The Tacoma-Pierce County Health Department did survive a recent attempt to dissolve it.

Now it's going about its business to enforce pandemic rules and educate the public about the vaccine rollout, which came with an unmistakable bit of fanfare on the website.

But how is it going?

Joining us now is Kayla Scrivner, the Communicable Disease Control Program Manager with the Tacoma-Pierce County Health Department.

Kayla, thanks so much for joining us on Northwest Now.

My first question is probably pretty basic, but I think it needs to be repeated because I myself have been a little lost on this one.

What exactly is the health department's role in this pandemic?

Lay out your job, if you will, for us.

>> Kayla Scrivner: Sure, that's a great question, and it always gets a little confusing because in Washington, we have a state health department and then we have local health departments.

So Tacoma-Pierce County Health Department, we're really in a coordination and assurance and support role.

We're working very closely with community partners and just being a resource for the residents of Pierce County on this vaccine rollout.

The state department of health is the lead on ordering vaccine, distributing it, setting the guidance, so that's the different prioritization groups, and then we work at the local level to make sure that everyone understands that prioritization and that people who are eligible for vaccine have a place to receive the vaccine.

>> Tom Layson: I don't want to oversimplify it, but if I put that in a package, it sounds basically like the public-education piece, not so much the shot-giving peace, but the public education.

>> Kayla Scrivner: Correct, yep, coordination, partnerships, education, and yeah, just really being a resource for our local partners.

>> Tom Layson: We've heard a lot about people who are vaccine hesitant, which is amazing to, you know, I'll speak for myself, a little amazing, but what is your message to people who are vaccine hesitant?

>> Kayla Scrivner: Yeah, I think that what I would like to tell them is just that vaccines are some of the most, you know, rigorously tested tools in modern medicine, and if you have questions about it, be sure to discuss it with your medical provider.

We have great resources on our website that kind of break down the safety of vaccines and then a lot of the frequently asked questions that we're hearing come up about, is it safe, and is it safe for me, and, you know, depending on my situation?

So definitely do your research with a trusted source and talk to your doctor if you have questions.

>> Tom Layson: This is deliberately a very open-ended question because I want you to be able to articulate this to stakeholders and policymakers and decision-makers out there.

Are you getting what you need?

>> Kayla Scrivner: That's a great question, as well.

This is a very complex situation.

I think that we have a great relationship with our state partners here in Washington.

We have excellent infrastructure set up for vaccines already, and we're all just hoping for more vaccine.

You know, the fact that we have a vaccine for this novel disease in under a year is a miracle and I don't want to lose sight of that.

I think a lot of the frustrations we're feeling now is just that there's not enough for everybody that needs it, and that supply will come in time.

>> Tom Layson: So here I'm going to give you a chance to put on your swami hat.

Johnny Carson was a TV host in the old days, and he used to sort of prognosticate.

So I understand I'm asking you to read some tea leaves here and this is an inexact science.

I want to, you know, concede that.

What's your gut tell you about when the average person, not in a nursing home or a frontline provider or somebody with many comorbidities, but a typical person, what's your gut say about when vaccines will be rolled out for that population?

>> Kayla Scrivner: I really think, you know, by hopefully spring, late spring, early summer, you know, looking at the supply projections, really hope to have a lot of it out and available to the public by then.

I know there's some changes with the federal government right now, possibly about getting more supply out quicker and so that will be a really interesting layer.

But I just think that, you know, it's going to depend on uptake, how many people are willing to get it.

But I do think we're going to see a tremendous opportunity for everyone in the community here, and hopefully in the spring.

>> Tom Layson: Last 10 seconds, go ahead and plug your website, if people want to learn more.

>> Kayla Scrivner: Yes, please go to tpchd.org and learn about the COVID-19 vaccine.

>> Tom Layson: Lockdowns and shutdowns are just crushing businesses and mental health.

When combined with the numbers of dead and sick, one way or another, this nearly year-long siege is going to affect just about everybody.

The problem, though, is that we live in a country where the National Science Foundation has found that one in four people believe that the sun revolves around the Earth and that provides the soil into which the anti-vaxx movement can sow its dark seeds.

The bottom line, our failed politics are directly linked with our failures responding to this pandemic.

And we're going to wind up with a death toll that no meme or social-media posting is going to be able to paper over.

I hope this program got you thinking and talking.

To watch this program again, or to share it with others, it streams on our website at kbtc.org, and be sure to follow us on Twitter @northwestnow.

Thanks for taking a closer look on this edition of Northwest Now.

Until next time, I'm Tom Layson.

Thanks for watching.

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