Hi, I'm Ed Leon.

Welcome to the 260, where we cover life and community in Northeast Indiana.

On this episode, the controversy surrounding the Fort Wayne Police Department's flock, AI surveillance cameras, how roller derby is alive and well in Fort Wayne, and the local author who has published a new science fiction novel, It's all right now on the 260.

All right.

Let's discuss something that's become a divisive issue here in Fort Wayne and across the country really.

This is a flock surveillance camera.

It's an automated license plate reader that photographs every passing vehicle and stores the information for police to use later in investigations.

There are 36 of them in Fort Wayne.

And the police department wants to renew the contract with flock for just over $120,000.

However, the City Council has held up approval of those funds on concerns that the technology goes too far in collecting private information.

Here to unpack the issue is Devan Filchak metro editor at the Fort Wayne Journal Gazette.

Welcome to the 260 Devan.

Thank you.

Talk to me how the cameras work.

So yeah, like you mentioned, the cameras capture license plate numbers as cars drive past them, along with some identifying information about the vehicles.

And then all of those get stored in a system that police can then go look up, you know, oh, I have a partial license plate number, or I have this description of a card and hopefully find something.

It captures every car, right.

Everything going by.

So the stuff that the police actually look at is very minuscule compared to everything that's captured.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

It's been used to help 700 or 275 investigations so far.

Yeah, that's that's what I read in your report.

How long have the police been using these.

So they started using them in 2024.

And that's kind of where some of the controversy has come in, because even council members were like, why is this the first time were hearing about this?

Exactly why is the controversy happening now?

Right, exactly.

So it's really just because of the amount of the contract.

It's just exceeded that $100,000 line now.

So council has to hear about it.

But council members and the public alike wish they would have heard about it much sooner.

So in those 277 cases describe how the flock cameras are used.

I've been noticing it in more and more court documents lately that often, you know, they might have a suspect or they might see a vehicle.

There's so many surveillance cameras at different businesses and even homes now that they might have a little bit of a description, but they're able to kind of get one step closer to identifying that by searching the system.

So police can go back, search the system even.

And also I read that they're monitoring it all the time.

So if there's a stolen vehicle going by, the police will get an alert.

Right?

Like if it's stolen vehicle from another state or whatever, it shows up and pings the police.

Yes and thats one... Mhm, thats one thing that could be controversial about it too, is just how many agencies are able to access the data in Fort Wayne.

Yeah.

So let's get into that.

What I mean, there has been there's been plenty of opportunity for citizens to comment on on these cameras.

And from what I read, most of the reaction has been very negative.

People want the council to reject this contract.

Why?

What's their concern?

Yeah, that is the concern is just knowing exactly how that data is used.

People don't like the idea of being caught on camera.

And then yeah, maybe they're not suspected for a crime, but just the idea that that data could be misused, or that there's more than 2000 agencies that can access that data at any time, people do worry about it being used for not investigations.

So and there is some I mean, not in Fort Wayne necessarily, but there is there are some documented cases of police departments that have used this information.

For example, officers and police chiefs and other states have tracked their girlfriends and ex-wives.

It's so there is an opportunity for for misuse.

What protections are there here in Fort Wayne to prevent those things from happening?

Yeah.

So all the officers are trained.

There's, I think, more than 470 that are trained to use the program in town, and they have to have some information like a partial plate or some of that identifying information.

And then they also audit the system to make sure it's being used correctly.

The police chief, P.J.

Smith, said he's not worried about it being misused like it has other places.

But that's only done so much to comfort people.

So that has not comforted people, right?

Not really.

Not really.

So it has to be an open case.

But they can also go back and find information to, to open a case up.

Right?

Yeah.

They have to have some information before they go into it because they have to be looking for something specific.

But then they also it can't be the only evidence they use.

They have to have more to kind of round it out, to have probable cause to arrest someone.

From, from your reporting, it seems like, you know, it's not like the Flock cameras capture people in the, in the act of a crime, for the most part, right?

But it gives them it gives police some information from which they can go build a case and find other information.

Are there some examples of how the technology has been used to solve actual cases here in Fort Wayne?

Yeah.

One case that officials have talked about a lot, because it was a big one, was the homicide of Perla Nieto, who was a cashier at Kroger a couple of years ago.

And that was one where it was kind of active.

The suspect was driving away, and they were able to find him that way.

And that was one where the prosecutors have talked about.

It's incredibly important because jurors, you know, used of modern technology and they want to be able to see that and see this evidence from different places.

So that's one they really credit for it.

Yeah.

So I guess jurors have been accustomed like if there's no evidence, if there's no if I don't see video, it didn't really happen.

Right?

So we've sort of devalued the idea of of testimony.

So one of the other concerns that has been brought up, you know, among people is that this constant surveillance, it's like an example of over surveillance, right?

Like the constant surveillance allows, you know, police to build like a pattern of life.

This has come up in other states.

Is that, again, the auditing what is the auditing do that that helps guard against such such a thing?

I think the auditing is really there just to make sure that officers are using it the way that it should.

One concern that Councilman Rawley Booker brought up was the idea of using a fake case number to access that.

So I think it's just checking to make sure that, yes, they are using it as trained.

So how long is the information that's captured by the cameras kept on the file?

It's kept for 180 days, which is consistent with some of the other evidence that police store.

But that is something that makes Fort Wayne different than other communities.

How so?

Even in Allen County, Sheriff's Department stores it for 30 days, which I think gives people a little bit more comfort versus it being stored for months.

Right.

And some municipalities in Indiana have voted to increase their flock commitment and others.

Bloomington, Indiana decided to to stop.

Yes.

I think it's really a matter of officials weighing, you know, is the level of technology and the public scrutiny worth what it does for investigations?

And that really does vary depending on who you ask.

So 2000 agencies across America can go into our video files and and research.

Wow.

It's a lot.

And how many police officers in Fort Wayne have access to it.

Local I believe it's about 470 officers.

Wow.

So is that so?

What do the other authorities use our information for like to research cases they're working on?

Yeah, it could be researching cases they're working on.

It could be looking for suspects who they believe fled, you know, maybe even cross state lines.

So those types of reasons.

So what's next for this this issue?

Yeah.

So on August 25th, they're scheduled to reconsider this, the funding for the next contract.

And if they don't approve it, it looks like flock won't be around much longer.

They'll have to take them down?

I believe so, yeah.

All right.

Well, we're going to keep abreast of that.

You can read the ongoing coverage of this story at the JGs website.

JournalGazette.net/260 All right.

Thank you so much for being on the show.

20 years ago, a handful of women launched a new sport in Fort Wayne with helmets, hits and jams.

Since then, Fort Wayne Roller Derby has evolved into one of the Summit City's most unique athletic traditions.

It's also a thriving volunteer organization that has donated more than 150,000 to charities benefiting women and children throughout northeast Indiana.

Along the way, they've built lifelong friendships and inspired generations of skaters.

Coming off their 20th season and preparing for season 21.

We're joined by Valerie Gambrell, also known by her skater name Slaughterher and Gracie Stoner, one of the junior skaters whose skater name is Black Widow.

Welcome to the 260.

Thank you.

You guys look awesome.

Thank you.

Thank you.

And tell.

For the uninitiated.

Explain roller derby a little bit.

How does the game work?

What goes on at a bout?

So just the I guess overview.

You've got your blockers and your jammers.

Blockers and jams.

The jammers whole thing is that they need to get through the blockers.

The way that you score points is for every blocker you pass you score, you score a point.

So that's your very basic overview.

And you're going around and around on a track.

Yeah.

Okay.

So what is the track.

You know.

How long is it?

Is it cones or is it banked?

Valerie: It's not.

It used to be banked.

We don't do banked anymore.

We do flat track roller derby.

Okay.

No cones or anything you actually have.

It's a big, like, oval, but you've got rope that is taped down.

So if you're skating, you can feel the rope.

That way you know you're not going out of bounds.

Okay.

So it seems kind of or at least what I remember from roller Derby is it was kind of a rough and tumble sport.

Is it.

Yes, absolutely.

Oh, absolutely.

It's a lot of full contact and unfortunately there are injuries with it.

But it is still very, very fun.

So is that part of the the whole vibe of it to have the the nicknames and you know.

Yeah, it's definitely a part of the culture.

Yeah, it's a big culture thing and it was a lot more prevalent, you know, 20 years ago when it was a lot more rough and tough.

Now it's a lot more like fun, friendly community to community.

Very community.

How did you guys land on your on your nicknames?

It's actually really funny.

I came up with my derby name very last minute.

I was in the car with my mom, and we were going off this random generator online, and we were looking and we just couldn't find anything that really suited me.

And I was talking to my mom, and she was like, how about Black Widow?

And I was like, you know what?

That'll work.

All right.

And you got the eyes going.

Going for you.

How about your name?

So I'm a little scared of your name.

Don't be, don't be.

It's not very fitting.

So I was a junior when I played as a junior.

My name was Victorious V. I was like, this is.

I guess this is fun for now, but going into adult season, I was like, I want something a little more grown, a little more rough and tough.

I spent like a month just trying to go through things, and somehow I made like a list of names that I thought, and finally narrowed it down to Slaughterher.

Okay.

All right.

Now, you mentioned juniors.

So there's a pipeline, right?

There's junior skaters and adult skaters.

Explain that.

Juniors.

It starts, I believe, from 9 to 18.

So once you turn 18, you're immediately an adult and you have to skate with the adults.

And you both came up through that the junior ranks.

So what's the difference?

It's like the experience I guess.

The experience.

So juniors is a lot more soft.

Down to, we used to have what we call Tootsie Rollers and those were our even younger kids.

So I know that I started as like a tootsie roller.

And then I moved up to our Fort Wayne Derby brats, and now I am in a Fort Wayne derby.

Fort Wayne roller derby.

It is just it is a pipeline.

They prefer you start as a junior just so that you can get your bearings.

You know what you're doing.

And that's also the purpose of our training camp.

That way you can get in there, learn about that, learn how.

To skate.

And you got to learn the sport.

You got to learn the sport.

That's a huge thing.

That's a that's a big thing.

So how do you recruit new skaters.

Any way we can?

Yeah.

Honestly, things like this.

We do a lot with social media, even just getting out and about in the community, making posters, posting them everywhere.

Word of mouth is a big thing.

A lot of people go and they tell their friends and then they bring their friends in.

Okay, now it used to be women only, right?

But now it's all.

Gender, all inclusive.

Yes.

So is.

And are the teams mixed?

Valerie: Some are like Fort Wayne.

We are a mixed team, but there are other teams that choose to opt into women's only.

Ed: Ok And so when you're skating around, are you skating against men too?

Yeah.

Yes.

Yeah, yeah.

So you need your helmet.

You need your helmet, that's for sure.

So if I remember roller derby, you know, there were a lot of, like, elbowing.

Yeah.

That's all happening to.

No more elbows.

You'll get some penalties for that bit.

Shoulders and hips only.

There's also, you know, you have a tradition of welcoming everybody and that's that's important.

Talk about that.

You know the inclusivity of the sport.

Yeah I'd say derby honestly originated because a lot of sports were more how do I explain it.

They weren't as inclusive.

I mean, it's a kind of blunt way to put it, but this was a sport that started because everybody wanted to feel welcomed.

And over the years you can see that it's definitely evolved to that.

We make sure that we push, that everybody can come to practices.

We don't want anybody to feel like they are excluded from anything.

We push really hard for things like pride, inclusivity, things of that nature.

Now there's a tradition of giving back at this organization, right?

Talk about that a little bit.

I mean, that's a lot of money to have given.

I know it's over a long span, but but is every match or every bout you give you collect money like that.

So each season we choose we choose a new charity to benefit.

This year it was Food Not Bombs, so a lot of our proceeds would go to Food Not Bombs.

It's just to make sure that we're still giving back to the community the way that the community has given back to us.

And what's what's ahead for season 21.

So many things.

We're going to really push for new skaters.

We're trying to get new faces to continue to grow as a team.

We want to give a lot more back to the community as well, so we're hoping to get a lot more community events involved.

We do have quite a few community events lined up right now.

I know that we are going to be at the Fort Wayne Pride Festival, as well as the Decatur one.

We're going to be at Open streets, the Fort Wayne Tattoo Festival, and a bunch of other ones that we got planned.

So what would you like to see for the sport to grow here in Fort Wayne?

Really, recruitment I think that's what we're kind of lacking right now is just the numbers.

But we're hoping to change that this year.

And do you guys practice like the team?

Does the team go ahead and practice?

Is that a big part of your schedule and your.

Every Tuesday.

Yes we practice.

Okay.

And what what are you learning in the practices?

There's a whole lot of things.

So we typically start off practice with just some warming up, getting your endurance up there.

And then we go over gameplay like here's what you should do in gameplay.

And then typically the last half hour is when we practice those skills when we put them into gameplay.

So your last half hours when you're kind of getting rough and tough out.

There, okay.

And you and you score points by breaking through a wall of skaters.

Exactly.

All right.

That sounds very daunting.

To learn more about Fort Wayne Roller Derby, or if you know somebody who would like to attend their training camp, check them out online and on their Facebook page at Fort Wayne Roller Derby.

Thank you both.

Thank you, I appreciate it.

Our next guest is a local author who brought his imagination to life in a science fiction thriller filled with action, danger and questions about how tragedy changes us.

It's called internal damage, and I'm happy to welcome the author, Lucas Gerke, to the 260.

Welcome man.

Hi.

Thanks.

Great to have you here.

So this is your first published book, and it's got some big themes.

Why science fiction?

Why did you choose that?

I sort of.

Thought of the content with the idea of it being different perspectives and being how how each person handles what's happening to them differently.

And Sci-Fi just kind of felt it felt the most fitting for the angle I was taking.

So what was the inspiration behind that story that you chose?

Well, originally I wanted it to just be one character, and I liked the idea of the change they were going through and them really becoming a different person by the end and seeing how it all shapes them.

But I was kind of dissatisfied with the narrative, with it just being... that person.

It felt too limited.

I felt like we didn't get a good scope of exactly how people adapt to these horrible situations and try to maintain their humanity during that if it was just one perspective.

Theres horrible situations in in the book.

What?

Give me the plot.

What's the plot?

So it's a it's a group of people, totally normal people.

They're on Europa, which is one of the moons of Jupiter.

That part's a little less.

Normal, but.

Right.

But, I mean, they're just going to a diner.

They're excited that it's got they're getting meat that's coming in there where they live.

Didn't used to have that because of the limited resources.

That's the initial impetus.

And then suddenly they start getting attacked and the attack starts as conventional weapons, like they're getting bombed and they know there's a war on, so they assume it's related, but then they start noticing other other things attacking them that they wouldn't call people.

Okay.

And so.

So there's there's some monsters.

Creatures.

What?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

I've heard it that way.

And you place that on Europa, one of the moons of Jupiter.

So as you were coming to this and you said that it's a survival story, right?

Primarily, yes.

It's a survival story.

And that there's some dark themes in there.

How did the themes come first?

Like, you wanted to write about this and then it just science fiction was the vehicle or did those themes kind of evolve as the story took you there?

I think the themes came first.

Yeah, I think they did, because the story, the idea of the story started off so different.

The the circumstance that the main character, when I was going to have just one, those circumstances were so drastically different than the end product because the idea was still there.

But I didn't think the the through line I was giving that character was servicing what I was trying to get out of the book.

So once I came up with having more characters, I think the circumstances they were under shifted and it just leaned into sci fi.

You said the themes came first.

What themes were you trying to work out?

Oh, yeah.

You sat down to write a 500 page book, which was quite an accomplishment.

And what themes were leading you there?

Definitely what you what you have to become to, to make it through certain things.

And that can be negative, but also what you choose to hold on to, to, to try and still be you at the end of the day.

And so the idea of when you go through something, whether it's tragic or just drastic or just a big shift, even just a paradigm shift, the idea that you're a different you at the end, but you're still in there.

And in some ways that's good.

And in some ways it isn't always, but that's just kind of the reality.

Of it.

Either way, you're changed.

Do you have a so your local writer?

Yes.

By the way, is there a literary community here?

There actually is!

And I've been slowly discovering it throughout the process of getting this published and trying to get the word out about it.

There are a lot more local writers than I than I realized.

Yeah.

You mentioned the publishing of it.

So you you this is like a self-published project or a vanity press?

Yes, it's a Vanity Press.

Explain that.

For for people who may not be familiar.

How does that work?

Yeah, a vanity press is like assisted self-publishing where there's a, you know, there's a fee and everything.

But once you contract with them, there's a lot of the legwork that they do for you that you might either not have the resources to do yourself or just don't even know where to start.

So they provide some of the some of the busy work and some of the official stuff that's a little less on the creative end.

So for people who might be thinking about this, we have writers in our audience.

What's the good and the bad of of using a press like that?

The good is technically it's less work.

Yeah.

Some of the stuff that you would have to do that's just necessary for getting a book published.

That can be a lot of work, or that you might be a little lost on where to start.

That's taken care of.

The bad would be the financial aspect, I think.

Because it has.

It costs and it's pricey.

Yeah.

But also the, you know, the return you're getting isn't necessarily financial.

So if you're hoping for the book to get somewhere on its own and to help propel you, just as getting some side money or trying to start a career, that part's a little rougher.

As an independent writer and publisher, what are the challenges that you have run up against?

Exposure is the big one, I would say I think that's the biggest one, just getting the word out because, you know, you put in my case, I published it felt cool about that.

But then I was getting all these sales, felt great about that.

And then I realized once my friends and family had all gotten on it.

And the sales.

Started to dip, and I was trying to, I was struggling to figure out how to get people to find out that this exists, to see if there would even be interest.

Well, hopefully we're helping here.

I really hope so.

Yeah.

Do you have a creative process that you follow?

Yes.

Yeah.

And it's it's probably considering this is my only published book, it's probably way more intense than I have any right to even go for it.

I'd love to hear it.

Tell me.

It's so.

My ideas.

And this.

This is no exception.

My ideas come in little pieces and I'll come up with something.

I could just be driving down the road and listening to a song and see something, and I just somehow come up with some little thing and I'm like, oh, that'd be cool to put in a story.

And I just like, tuck that away and it either sticks around or dissolves.

When you tuck.

Do you have to write it down?

Because I tuck and it's gone.

It's gone, it's gone.

I mean, sometimes I do, I do if it's complex, if it's a little thing that I'm like, oh, that'd be kind of neat.

Then I just see if it sticks around on its own.

If it doesn't, I take it as wasn't worth holding onto.

And once enough of these ideas, if I'm like, oh, that would go well with this one.

Okay, well, that's a scene doesn't have any context.

So that's just floating by itself when enough collect that I really have like a foundation that that is literally I'm like, that's my next story.

So I'm going to do that.

And then I do all my outlining and that process.

All right.

And you've got you're working on are you working on another book.

I've technically finished another book.

Yeah.

Anything like this one.

It's almost nothing like this one.

Which is.

That's probably why I've been, you know, I've been working on getting getting more exposure for this one first, but, yeah, this one's sci fi.

The new one is fantasy.

Ok This one's like seven different POVs.

The next one's there's only one.

There's a central character.

Do you find anything unique about writing here in Fort Wayne?

You know, as a Fort Wayne writer, is it?

Is it a help?

Not or not a help?

I mean, is there is there anything unique about it?

I think so.

I mean, I only have the perspective of writing in Fort Wayne, but I do feel like the communities, the writing community is in Fort Wayne and just talking to people, you know, we're at like once they find out you're a writer.

I feel like it's so different than if you were in a big city where every coffee shops got three authors in it, you know, so there is a community there, but you you have to find it.

And you almost, I don't know, you feel a combination of validated and like a fraud because you're like, oh, I'm just some schmuck living in in a place where not you're not seeing published authors around every street corner.

But at the same time, it's like you feel like you're not just in a in a sea of other of other work, and you're all just kind of swimming against each other.

Well, we're glad we we found you.

And and thanks for being on the 260.

Thanks for having me!

Lewis Gerkes Science fiction thriller is titled Internal Damage.

It's available at the Allen County Public Library and wherever you buy books online.

The 260 is a PBS Fort Wayne production made possible by membership donations from viewers like you.

Thank you.

You can support the show by becoming a member at PBS Fort Wayne dot org.

That's all the time we have for this episode.

Please take a moment to appreciate the folks who contributed to making this show, and I'll see you next time on the 260.