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It was a Special Forces operation gone horribly wrong.

But the death of four U.S. Army soldiers, one from Puyallup, was just the start of the ordeal for Michelle Black, author of the book, Sacrifice, A Gold Star Widow's Fight for the Truth.

Tonight, as her book now moves into paperback, Michelle Black joins us to talk about her experience trying to figure out what really happened in the desert sands of Africa next on Northwest Now.

[ Music ] The disastrous mission of Operational Detachment Alpha 3212 in the African nation of Niger back in October of 2017 has been the subject of countless news stories, documentaries, and magazine articles.

To review, a small team of Special Forces operators were looking into reports of a wanted terrorist camping out near Niger's border with Mali.

The Americans were part of a multinational arrangement to keep ISIS under control in the area as part of the global war on terror.

Between the Nigerian and American forces, a convoy of eight vehicles began one relatively simple mission that eventually grew and changed in real time.

It was a classic case of mission creep as against the concerns expressed by the men on the ground, the operation morphed into a high-risk venture.

For which the team was under-equipped and under-manned.

Now the terrorist was never located, but on the way back to base, the group made a stop in the village of Tongo Tongo.

And soon things went south as more than 100 hostiles who had set up an ambush attacked, scattering most of the Nigerian forces and putting the Americans right in the middle of a high-intensity firefight.

In the end, four Americans were dead, including Puyallup's Special Forces Medical Staff Sergeant Bryan Black, a Green Beret with more training, awards, and special skills than I can possibly list here.

What follows was an emotionally grueling period of grief and then frustration for his wife, Michelle.

Who tells that story in her book, Sacrifice, A Gold Star Widow's Search for the Truth, published by Putnam.

Michelle, great to meet you.

So glad to have you here on Northwest Now.

I think a lot of us here in the Northwest have been familiar somewhat at arm's length with your story over a period of time.

You are from Puyallup and so there's an - a local element to this.

But I want to start with talking about the person in this book, your ex - your former husband, Bryan.

How did you two meet?

Tell us that story a little bit.

And also tell us a little bit who Bryan was as a person.

>> Ms. Black: Thank you so much for having me on.

Yeah, I met Bryan in a ski town.

I was actually instructing snowboarding.

He was teaching skiing and playing online poker for a living when I met him.

And I met him at church one night.

So he was brilliant.

He was a national chess champion as a kid.

He won second at nationals at just 11 years old and he was known throughout the Tacoma area, in fact, for chess.

He was always down at the Tacoma Chess Club growing up with his brother, Jason.

Just brilliant.

He graduated college early.

He did the Running Start program and graduated high school at the same time he got his A.A. And when he came up to Mammoth Lakes, the ski area in California, he was only 21 years old and had just graduated with his four-year degree.

So, yeah, he just was nonstop into everything, so whether it was chess or mixed martial arts, which he was really into MMA and cage fighting when I met him.

He just he was, yeah, very busy, and very intelligent, and very skilled at many things.

>> Tom Layson: How did you two come to the conclusion that the military was going to be the pathway forward for you?

>> Ms. Black: It was 2008 and there was the Great Recession.

And at that time, because his background as far as work went was in poker, he couldn't get a job with his degree.

But because he had a degree, it was becoming - it was difficult to get any job that was just entry level because he was either overqualified or underqualified.

And his whole life, he talked about becoming a Seal or a Green Beret, so at that point, he asked me if I minded, and I thought, "Well, why not?

You're providing for the family and we have a child on the autism spectrum, so you probably that would be a good option.

We'll have good health coverage and it's what you've always wanted to do, so go for it."

>> Tom Layson: You have this very practical view of it.

And he goes through his training, and like I mentioned in the intro, he's got more qualifications and awards than we can list on this show or we would have to say good night, immediately.

So he went through a lot of training and went through a lot and achieved those dreams.

Talk a little bit about your life in the military and then how things ended up going south for you.

>> Ms. Black: So first, we ended up in Colorado Springs, and that's where we officially got the diagnosis of autism for Isaac - or Ezekiel, my oldest.

And so and I was raising Isaac, the youngest, so I was running around like crazy.

Bryan was doing a lot of training.

He went to Special Forces selection.

And then within a year and a half, we moved to Fayetteville, North Carolina, where all of the Q course training took - takes place.

And there, Bryan became an 18 Delta, which is a Special Forces medic, and learned multiple languages.

He started with Arabic.

And while he focused in on those things, I mainly focused in on the kids.

When he graduated in 2015 from the Q course, he immediately deployed to Afghanistan, and when he returned, he went immediately to Ranger school.

And after three months, got his Ranger tab, and then immediately went to Niger in 2016 for a year, came home for six months, and then left, again, for the following deployment.

>> Tom Layson: Talk to us a little bit about how you got the news that that second deployment to Niger ended in disaster.

How did that come to you?

And I'm not going to ask you what your reaction is because that's obvious, but I guess was it a little were you stunned that the military life could result in that?

Had you contemplated that before of, "My guy's a Special Forces.

I mean, this absolutely can go sideways."

Or was that the first time you were sort of confronted with it?

>> Ms. Black: It was interesting because I think we had always considered Afghanistan to be the most dangerous place.

And I mean, odds, you know, when you look at statistics and the numbers, he was more likely to die in other conflicts than on the continent of Africa.

So Niger wasn't supposed to be a dangerous assignment, so I hadn't worried about it really at all.

Prior to this specific deployment, I did start getting a very bad premonition and so that kind of led me to have a heightened sense of fear and danger.

But I had never really considered that we would end up in this place.

The night I found out, I actually was very stressed.

I hadn't heard from him in a few days and I was concerned.

And I received a phone call from his mom stating that she had seen a news flash come across her phone.

And that essentially there had been a Green Beret team attacked near the Mali-Niger border and that several Green Berets had been killed.

And I instantly knew.

I said that's Bryan's team.

Bryan is dead.

And within a few hours, there were men at my door giving me the news.

>> Tom Layson: You detail that experience in your book and it's very touching, and at times, it is hard to read.

But one of the things that struck me though, too, is I'd always kind of pictured a person who received that news.

Would be given the space to sort of think, and calm down, and get themselves together, and deal with their family.

But no, sir, I mean you have a list of duties to do.

You're going to this.

You're going to that.

I mean, it - you really didn't have time to sit down and think after this happened.

>> Ms. Black: That's exactly right.

And the way it happened, because it became such national news, the bodies were flown home very quickly just to avoid extra media around - attention around Dover.

But unfortunately, what that meant was Bryan was going to be home at Dover the next day around 1:00, so not even 24 hours after I received the news.

And I had sent my kids to school the next day.

And so I had to choose between waiting and telling my kids what happened to Bryan, or going to Dover, and then my kids coming home to an empty house, and discovering that their dad was dead.

So for me, I didn't even - there - things were happening so quickly that I had to make a lot of split-second decisions.

And, yeah, from that moment forward, I mean, a CAO shows up at my house, casualty assistance officer, and it's just pull out a huge book and we start going line by line.

I have to sign things.

I have to agree to things that I'm not in a mental space to even make a cognitive decision on, at that point.

>> Tom Layson: And you had months of meetings and reports, which is detailed in the second part of this book.

But I want to read conclude what I would call part one of this book with this paragraph.

"I believed we'd see a minute-by-minute analysis of what had happened on the ground between October 3rd and October 4th.

The AFRICOM investigators had unlimited resources at their disposal.

And I believed that what - and I believed what they had been saying publicly, that they wanted nothing more than to bring those truths to the families of the deceased.

In order to ease our minds and bring us what peace they could.

I was wrong."

When did you realize things weren't as they appeared as that reporting was coming into you?

>> Ms. Black: We were given a family brief about seven months following the incident.

And at that time, they had told us they would answer questions and go through thoroughly minute by minute.

I did not get a timeline - a detailed timeline of events on the ground at all.

There wasn't a real, "This happened at 11:00.

This happened."

So for me, that was a huge problem.

But also, when I asked questions, it felt very dishonest.

There were a lot of, "Trust us, Miss Black.

You'll see."

But I felt that if I was going to see then I should be seeing it while I am being briefed by the investigators, but I didn't.

And following the investigation, it became clear that they were targeting those lowest down the chain, specifically the captain of the team, Captain Perozeni.

And while I held out hope that those men wouldn't be punished, there was an AFRICOM media brief the following week in which they stated that they were going to hold Captain Perozeni.

And others who were low down the chain accountable.

And then General Waldhauser, then the commander of AFRICOM, stated that while all teams on the continent were performing optimally.

My husband's team was not indicative of what special operators do.

>> Tom Layson: So they completely threw the guys under the bus.

>> Ms. Black: Yes.

>> Tom Layson: What was your - that's what launched you on to your investigation, which is for somebody with no background in journalism, or authorship, or investigations, is a heck of a task.

And this story is very complicated, the troop movements, the timeline.

We can't possibly get into it.

You got to read the book.

But I would think that synthesizing this as you've done in the book, taking all this data, smelling a rat, and then putting it together.

That must have been one heck of a process that you had to go through yourself with reams of data and reports, some of which you suspected their voracity, and then turning it into your search for the truth.

>> Ms. Black: Yeah, it was extremely complicated because not only did I have to learn basic - the basic process of getting published, but I also had to learn military terms.

I had to learn how to essentially speak military and then break that down into civilian speak so that I could understand it and so that my readers could understand it.

But also so that I could thoroughly understand what I was being told.

Because there were times throughout the report that they used one like -- >> Tom Layson: Acronym.

>> Ms. Black: Acronym, yeah.

That's the best way to describe it.

One acronym for a leader and then they'd switch around and be talking about the same leader with a different acronym.

So I had to break down a definition of who this - what these different acronyms were so that I could go through and just - and that was just the tip of the iceberg.

>> Tom Layson: Yeah.

>> Ms. Black: So it was a huge learning curve for me.

>> Tom Layson: What you come out with, there's an old military saying that we're on broadcast television so I can't say it, but snafu actually means something if you know what the letters mean.

>> Ms. Black: Yeah.

>> Tom Layson: And you certainly uncovered that here.

One of the things that struck me, too, is that AFRICOM did the investigation.

It seems to me that the command structure where the incident happens shouldn't be the one doing the investigation.

Is that a reform you want to see or is that possible to reform in the military?

>> Ms. Black: Yeah, that is actually something I would really like to see done and I don't think should ever happen.

In fact, there were 23 findings in the investigation.

And AFRICOM, the, of course, the commander of AFRICOM, General Waldhauser, found no fault in Finding 23, which was specifically about AFRICOM.

So it became very clear there was bias going on from the beginning.

>> Tom Layson: Your relationship with the surviving team members.

They were instrumental in you putting this tremendous amount of data together, and trying to timeline it, and seeing things in reports, oh, that's the same troop movement.

Those are those two guys running this way.

And I'm sure that the interviews that you did with the surviving team members were instrumental in that.

Talk a little bit about that process and about your ongoing relationship with them.

>> Ms. Black: Yeah, the interviews with the men were very instrumental, but I think more than anything, it was life changing.

Because it was the first time that I came to the realization that our men and women who are coming home from these incidents overseas, their loss is just as great as mine.

Because as I interviewed and spent time with these men, they knew Bryan just as well as I did.

They had grown so close to him just living in a desert in a CONEX for six months every year with him.

They knew him just as well as I did and that loss for them was just like losing a family member.

And to see them grieving and not have anybody recognize it, it changed me forever, and they are like my brothers now and we will forever be close.

We talk all the time, so.

>> Tom Layson: That's nice.

After having written this book and after the investigating - investigation process going to where it did, are you calling now - I saw a letter that you signed and it wasn't quite clear.

Are you calling for a new investigation?

Do you think there needs to be a new look at this or is it more of reforms going forward from this point forward?

Where are you with your understanding of this event and does the military need to take a second or a third look at it?

>> Ms. Black: There - I did sign that letter and there were - that was a push from a few different organizations.

My main concern I think at this point is just making sure there's reforms going forward because this happens all too often.

We've seen it in multiple different instances, right?

Everyone can recall anything from even just as we pulled out of Afghanistan this year and lost 13.

We see the bigger ones, you know, Pat Tillman, and, you know, Benghazi, and Niger ambush.

But those are the big ones that we see.

There are a lot that happen.

Now I don't think it always happens.

I think that the real issue is that just like in anything, you always get a few bad leaders in the mix and they're always going to be the ones who protect themselves first, and that's why you see this.

>> Tom Layson: And it always, for some reason, they're in the position to tell the story and to make the reports.

Why is that?

>> Ms. Black: Yeah.

I don't know.

Sometimes I wonder if it's connections up the line or just not thorough oversight, you know.

And I think when it comes right down to it, the families are the ones who have the power to stand up and do something about.

The guys on the ground, a lot of times, they don't because it can permanently affect their careers moving forward.

So we really are the only ones who can stand up and make sure that the truth is told.

>> Tom Layson: In the intervening years, have there been any serious consequences dealt out to commanders or people who made the decision to turn this what was a very simple mission.

Into this extended, overextended, underequipped adventure into the middle of nowhere with no backup?

I mean, it was awful.

Have any consequences come out of that or has the situation sort of just stayed under wraps and people continued on with their careers?

>> Ms. Black: There's been two main people in the book who I feel really had, well, they did have the main control over the mission and pushing it forward.

And they were responsible for really everything from training the guys to signing the CONOPS and sending them out, Lieutenant Colonel Painter and Colonel Moses.

I cannot - it's like he's got a blanket of protection over him, Lieutenant Colonel Painter, so I don't know where he's at or what he's doing.

I've heard rumors that he's been blocked from moving up the chain, but I don't know if that's true.

Colonel Moses, however, did get blocked by Congress from moving up and getting his first star.

So when you cannot - when you get blocked from moving up -- >> Tom Layson: Yeah.

>> Ms. Black: -- to a general position, you are pushed out, so he's been pushed out, at this point.

>> Tom Layson: An open letter, and you mentioned this briefly, that you signed, and I want to read a paragraph of this here, as well.

"The military overall has scaled back our survivor programs.

Some nonprofit organizations collect money by exploiting our loss.

They haven't reached out at the end - they haven't reached out at the end of this conflict and they haven't helped change the policies that hurt our survivors and they're failing the mission."

That's something I always wonder about.

You know, you always see these, you know, give to Gold Star.

There's a million nonprofits and 501(3)(c)'s out there.

They're not all good actors, are they?

>> Ms. Black: No, not all of them, and that's why it's really important that you look into them, see how much, you know, what percentage of their income is actually going out to what it is that they're claiming to do.

>> Tom Layson: And I'm glad you mentioned that, because that's always the - every time I see it on commercial or on radio satellite, right, I'm always thinking.

You know, are they just leveraging these families and the - and our fallen heroes for their own benefit or are they really contributing.

And it seems like you've run up against some of the bad actors.

>> Ms. Black: Yeah, I have run up against some bad ones.

I've also run up against some really great ones, you know.

One of my favorite is Tunnels to Towers.

The majority of their money, I want to say 97%, actually goes into giving directly to families in need.

Well, it's families who have lost a person in the line of duty in service to their country.

>> Tom Layson: Talk about a few of the reforms you want to see, too, survivor programs, survivor support.

What improvements need to be made there as you go forward with your life and advocacy for this?

What are some of the things that you think you can see yourself fighting for?

>> Ms. Black: I think one of the biggest things right now is that you look at the incident that my husband died in.

You look at what we went through with a terrorist video of his death being released.

And there was no - despite everything that was required of us to do before we could be released from the military.

There was no requirement for counseling, or psychotherapy, or anything despite this devastating thing that happened to us.

And I, you know, it's hard to see that.

It - we have to fight as Gold Star spouses just to coverage for therapy.

>> Tom Layson: Yeah, so there's do you have a sense a little bit that you serve, you sacrifice, and that you're dropped a little bit?

You - there needs to be some follow on, it sounds like.

>> Ms. Black: I do believe that, yes.

Absolutely.

>> Tom Layson: I don't think most people would, A, I know they wouldn't agree with it, but I think they'd be surprised by that.

I think they'd be surprised hearing that from you that there isn't this ongoing support and help.

"And of course we step in for our Gold Star families and do this and this."

And that's not the case.

>> Ms. Black: Yeah, I think it depends.

I think there are a lot of people who there's an SOS, which is Survivor Outreach Services, and on certain bases, it's incredible.

On other bases, it's like they just don't want to give as much of their funding to the SOS.

And so like when I was at Bragg, it was absolutely phenomenal.

There were three people working with me and they still call me and let me know if I need anything.

So it really is just base by base.

It depends on the command, who cares.

>> Tom Layson: And Bragg's where all the special operators are, so they probably are a little more empathetic here.

>> Ms. Black: Yeah, absolutely.

>> Tom Layson: You mentioned your kids, Isaac and Ezekiel.

You read this book and they're a piece of this.

They, you know, I think a lot of times people don't recognize the kids go through this, too.

Maybe give us an update.

How are they doing?

>> Ms. Black: You know, surprisingly well.

My kids have a really good outlook.

The other day, Ezekiel was telling me that he doesn't want the loss of his dad to lead him to be an angry and worse person because he thinks a lot of people do that.

He wants it to drive him to be a stronger and better person.

And I do notice my kids are more empathetic.

They tend to think of others before themselves and it's really nice to see.

And, you know, in general, they're doing really good, really good.

>> Tom Layson: Tough question for you.

What do you say the day one of them comes up to you and says, "Mom, I want to join the military.

I think I want to follow dad and be a Special Forces operator."

What do you say?

>> Ms. Black: Well, they've already done that.

>> Tom Layson: Oh, okay.

>> Ms. Black: They're 15 and 14 now.

And Ezekiel always says that, and one thing I've always told him is, "Just wait till you're a little older."

Just because I want him to - I think the older you are, you're making a more conscious decision.

No one's talking you into which branch or which, you know, community to go into.

So I believe that first.

But I've told him, "As long as it makes you happy."

I love the military.

I love everything about it.

I think there's just like everything, you know, anywhere in the world, there's always things that can be better and can be fixed, but that doesn't mean it's completely broken and terrible.

What happened to me was bad, but not everybody goes through that.

In fact, most don't, and I do think it's I think everything the military has to offer is phenomenal.

>> Tom Layson: All right, interesting.

They're not duct taped and gagged to a chair in your basement, in other words.

>> Ms. Black: No.

>> Tom Layson: Okay.

>> Ms. Black: Not at all.

>> Tom Layson: All right, good for you.

Last question for you here in our last 60 seconds.

The Global War on Terrorism Memorial I know is something being worked on in Washington.

We just did World War II.

Do you have hopes for this happening in your lifetime?

What are you doing to try to make that move forward?

>> Ms. Black: I've actually been working with a group of people.

We were kind of pushing for that.

A close friend of mine was working on that and I do have hopes that it will move forward.

I don't know where it's at right now.

I missed the last, you know, they started doing meetings and I wasn't there.

But I do have hopes that it'll happen in our lifetime.

It definitely needs to.

>> Tom Layson: All right.

Michelle Black, thanks so much for coming to Northwest Now.

The book is Sacrifice, A Gold Star Widow's Fight for the Truth.

Great conversation.

I appreciate you coming.

>> Ms. Black: Thank you so much.

>> Tom Layson: Mistakes caused by the fog of war, a butt-covering bureaucracy, bad intelligence, friendly fire, and badly planned missions, are consistent themes in the story of almost any military.

The bottom line, Michelle Black's point is not so much that all those things can ever be eliminated.

But rather that those serving now and the families of the fallen deserve the truth to improve the military and to help families understand even if that truth isn't pretty or convenient.

I hope this program got you thinking and talking.

To watch this program again or to share it with others, Northwest Now can be found on the web at kbtc.org.

And be sure to follow us on Twitter @NorthwestNow.

Thanks for taking a closer look on this edition of Northwest Now.

Until next time, I'm Tom Layson.

Thanks for watching.

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