>> Northwest Now is supported in part by viewers like you.

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>> Tom Layson: Northwest Now has spent years documenting the threats to Puget Sound as the calls for dedicated state and federal funding grow louder and climate change and population growth continue to threaten the many species that rely on the Sound.

Tonight, Suquamish Tribal Chair Leonard Forsman joins us to talk about saving the Sound and some of the many other issues facing Western Washington tribes.

Forsman is also the first person of native descent to serve on the University of Washington's Board of Regents, and he's next on Northwest Now.

[ Music ] In the Southern Lushootseed language, Suquamish means place of the clear saltwater.

Clean clear freshwater and saltwater are crucial to Suquamish life along Agate Passage.

Like most of the other Salish Sea tribes, they describe themselves as a salmon people; and they produce shellfish and other products from their home waters.

That's one of the reasons the Suquamish have invested millions of dollars to restore habitat in their traditional places.

Chief Seattle's gravestone might seem like a reminder of the Suquamish tribe's ancient history but relative to their relationship with salmon.

Seattle's death in 1866 is recent history.

So is the effort to bring chum salmon back to Cowling Creek, a little stream that flows into Miller Bay and is another example of how just one change can wipe out a productive salmon run.

Innocent looking road culverts destroyed fish passage here, the final straw of decades of unwitting habitat destruction in the creek's watershed.

>> Mr. Dorn: We took out the beaver dams.

And, in many cases, we created barriers unintentionally or willingly.

A lot of road culverts were not impassable initially but became so after many high-flow events and many barriers.

Here on Cowling Creek, we'll be working toward removing the culverts that were put in, in 1935 and are 100% impassable to all anadromous fish.

>> Tom Layson: Volunteers truck fish around the culverts and have put makeshift ladders into place, trying to move fish.

And, eventually, doing things like taking out the culverts is not only good for fish, Dorn says it's part of living up to the Point Elliott Treaty of 1855.

>> Mr. Dorn: We've done a huge disservice to tribes.

When they signed the treaties and we promised to allow them to hunt and fish in their usual and accustomed places, the fact that financial resources are so diminished in many cases and we all lose, whether we're sport hunters or sport fishermen.

It's a shared resource.

If we work together, we make the pie bigger.

Everybody's slice is bigger.

>> Tom Layson: The tribe's efforts can also be seen over on nearby Chico Creek.

The signs of restoration are everywhere, including the installation of native plants, fish-friendly log jams and large replanting and restoration efforts that extend miles upstream.

The chum salmon have returned to Chico Creek and are the stock for the program on Cowling Creek.

The hope is that they'll increase and maybe also attract more Nomad, steelhead and coho, too, just like the old days.

As is the case all across Puget Sound, volunteers are a big part of the effort on Cowling Creek too.

Brian Kenward helps restore creek-side habitat and feed the tiny chunk fry who zoom back and forth in the rearing pond.

>> Mr. Kenward: Every little bit matters.

In the volunteering that I've done, I've seen what many hands can do.

When you do it and you tell people about it, next thing you know they're interested in it.

Pretty soon you have a group of people.

Next thing, maybe the whole world.

>> Tom Layson: Leonard Forsman may not be a household name for many of us here in western Washington, but he's been one of the important voices of Native American leadership as President of the Affiliated Tribes of Northwest Indians, the Chairman of the Suquamish Tribe and now following his appointment by Governor Jay Inslee a member of the Board of Regents at the University of Washington.

Leonard, great to have you here on Northwest Now.

Start us out a little bit.

For folks who don't know you, give me a little bit of your bio, how did you come up and how do you find yourself in this position now.

>> Mr. Forsman: I was born and raised a Suquamish, the Port Madison Indian Reservation.

And my father was a tribal chairman for a while.

And he was a World War II vet, a logger, a fisherman, truck driver and met my mom during World War II in Baltimore.

He was in the Coast Guard, World War II.

I actually was named after the ship he was on, a troop transport called the USS Leonard Wood.

So they came back out to -- he brought my mom out of Baltimore, out the Suquamish and had a big family.

I'm the youngest of five and grew up there in Suquamish.

Had an early exposure, of course, to tribal government as a young person in our summer youth programs.

Went on to high school, of course, in North Kitsap and ended up graduating from University of Washington.

Worked in our museum as a researcher and director and then went on to work in archaeology for a period after that and then came back to the tribe after getting my master's degree in historic preservation from Goucher College to be their first full-time chairperson.

>> Tom Layson: I like the story about the little brother is now the Tribal Chair.

That must make for some interesting conversations.

>> Mr. Forsman: A little adjustment for everybody.

They're pretty proud of me.

Good mentors.

>> Tom Layson: Yeah.

I'll bet.

You know, when I think of, you know, my own list for what it's worth of pressing issues facing a negative -- Native Americans, you think about violence against women, health equity, poverty, education gaps.

All of those border almost on emergencies to some degree.

But let me ask you what -- what's at the top of your list?

What are the things that, when you're talking to people, you say, Listen, man.

We have to take care of these issues.

>> Mr. Forsman: Well, one of the things that all rises above to -- and I think really is interesting as regional, national leaders, natural resource protection, our connection to our homelands, our landscapes.

So not only do we have natural resources but cultural resources.

And oftentimes federal agencies and state agencies will try to separate them.

We'll deal with archaeology here, and we'll deal with fisheries here.

But they're all kind of together for us.

And so I would say natural resource, cultural preservation, cultural resource preservation is top of my list.

But there's also the issues of economic development and how that, you know, gets invested in long-term, short-term.

Those are super critical as well.

So you can't really do a lot of those things you want to do in the other arena, without the resources or the money to do those things.

>> Tom Layson: And that's one of the interesting things I think about you and your job.

I mean, you're dealing with all the way from potholes on certain streets as Tribal Chair all the way up to speaking with President Biden about some of the issues that you just talked about.

Talk a little bit about your meeting with the President and in what you're trying to elevate to that national agenda.

>> Mr. Forsman: Well, we've had a long relationship with presidents, of course.

And starting out with Isaac Stevens, the Treaty at Point Elliot, he was on behalf -- working on behalf of the -- what he called the Great White Father at that time.

And as time has gone on, we -- the tribes have worked really hard to have these White House relationships.

Bill Clinton did some of that in his White House.

But of course President Obama set the stage when he had the first White House Nations meeting.

And then that was suspended in the Trump presidency.

Although he did have some outreach to us, wasn't the same level.

And then when Biden, President Biden was re -- was elected, I should say, to the White House, he reinstated that.

So that's put our issues up front and center again, and it's been a great experience to have that an investment in that government-government relationship.

>> Tom Layson: And I was going to say, 17 federal agencies just all came together and signed a pledge to center treaty rights.

I almost -- am I going too far to saying that to some degree that might almost represent a new treaty.

In my mind, that major commitment and this major step forward on the part of the feds to center this.

>> Mr. Forsman: I think it's elevated treaty rights and our respective treaties in a way that it is also a new phase.

We've been pushing for that here in the northwest, especially around salmon recovery and water quality protections.

So that we have been to court.

We've adjudicated this.

It's been the supreme law of the land that treaties would be upheld.

And part of that treaty is protecting and enhancing and also allowing, permitting us to harvest, of course, was the first thing in the Boldt decision but was acknowledging that right to harvest.

But then the second part is protecting those fisheries as well.

So that's super complex and important, though.

>> Tom Layson: Two billion dollars comes along from the feds on what they're calling the Indian Country Investment Program, which is inside the American Rescue Plan.

Do you have any idea yet as to exactly what that's going to do?

Do you have plans?

>> Mr. Forsman: Well, the Suquamish, we've been able to invest in housing, which is super important right now for everybody across our area.

We are on a checkerboard reservation.

So we -- you know, we share the reservation with a lot of non Suquamish Washingtonians.

And so house prices have gone up at post-pandemic as everybody's seen, so it's hard for our people to acquire housing.

So we're going to have separate housing initiatives that we had already started pre-pandemic.

So this money is being invested in that.

And, also, starting our own new healthcare system.

We've relied on the outside healthcare system for decades, and that's been successful for quite a while.

We're finding now that we need to invest in our own on-reservation healthcare system.

>> Tom Layson: Which is a great segue into education as well.

We just did a pretty extensive program on the Indian boarding school phenomena.

There's a couple of documentaries that we've run here on KBTC.

It, too, was a national issue but also with local ramifications.

And I find it, with your background in history and now also as an appointee to the UW Board of Regents, you have -- you sit at a very interesting intersection of history and education.

How do we get it right in the -- is -- are tribal schools the way to go?

Some tribes have implemented those.

Is it a purely education into the public schools?

How do we balance culture and preparing kids for a high tech world?

What are your thoughts on that?

>> Mr. Forsman: Well, I thank you for doing the work on the Indian boarding school initiative that, of course, the Department of Interior has been investing in as a result of the Canadian concerns that we've had about the unmarked burials that were found there, which was very difficult for all of us to manage.

I think that one of the impacts of the assimilation policy, the reservations, the allotment, division of land, this mandatory boarding school experience has created a chasm in our generational transmission of education.

So how do we address that trauma that's been occurring?

And we've been trying to heal it through the public school engagement.

And we've had mixed success with that.

One of the problems I think that we face and challenges is the form -- is the localization of public schools, the localized general governance.

So we have to work on a local level to convince local leaders.

They have -- also have an obligation because it's a treaty issue in our treaties about education, that they have that responsibility to deliver a culturally appropriate education.

So do a lot of research and work with the K-12 system.

We found that we need to recruit more native teachers.

We need to have improved culturally based curriculum about tribal history and culture.

And we -- assessment isn't as big of a deal now, but we need to have culturally appropriate assessments as well.

So working on that.

We've been -- a number of challenges, including the fact that most tribal kids are in public schools.

So we've got to work closer with school boards, educating them, educating teachers about our culture and history and the importance of them having the acknowledgement in the classroom that the students have some obstacles to their learning that may be unknown to them.

>> Tom Layson: It sounds like you're still looking for a model, then, to some degree to get that -- to get it right.

But public schools and getting curriculum and some cultural sensitivity and injected into those environments is going to be crucial.

>> Mr. Forsman: Yes.

And I think that there's -- I don't think there's one solution.

I think that there's -- you know, so like you've mentioned, there's tribal schools.

We have our own tribal school in Suquamish through Kitsap Academy.

It's state funded and tribally funded.

And not all of our kids go to that school.

Some of them stay in the public school.

There's different approaches.

So I think that there's no one size fits all.

But I think all of those sizes need to be appropriately culturally.

>> Tom Layson: You mentioned the fact that the education piece was a part of -- I think that's an interesting historical fact.

A lot of people don't know that boarding schools were actually a part of a treaty.

The idea was to have that educational piece inside of that.

What is the importance of knowing history?

You've been deeply involved with the Suquamish Tribes Museum, with the Burke Museum.

Teaching and knowing the history now really seems to be gaining some traction.

We talked about the Indian boarding school issue, both in Canada and here domestically.

It seems like history's time is kind of coming.

Do you sense that at all?

And why is it so important?

>> Mr. Forsman: Yeah.

I think that you bringing up the treaty and education reminds me of a letter I wrote -- I read about when Chief Seattle was visited by the Indian agent.

One year after the treaty was signed, he asked, Where's our school?

And so that was high on their list.

And when you go back and look at the history of the tribes, of first contact with explorers, the missionaries, the fur trade, then the American government coming in and negotiating the treaties, it gives everybody an opportunity to learn how this area was formed.

And you can -- I think the best way to learn civics is learning about Indian tribal history because you learn about the Executive Branch, you learned about the Judicial Branch, you learn about the Legislative Branch.

All those things are brought in.

And then you also learn about how this land has changed over time and the different approaches that have had impacts on us long-term.

And we really try to push that sustainability concept, that we're here for seven generations, not only we look seven generations back for leadership, we look seven generations forward for the impacts of our actions of today.

>> Tom Layson: The education piece, of course, finds you at the University of Washington as a board of trustee.

And you've talked about centering tribal issues at the University of Washington.

What does that -- what does that look like?

Translate that for me.

>> Mr. Forsman: Well, the University of Washington, of course, has a huge influence on the education systems throughout the state, not only for business purposes, you know, for the medical field, you know, athletics.

You know, it's a cultural icon, cultural institution; and there's a lot of our gift -- most gifted students try to attain to get to the University of Washington to get the best education possible.

So those students, including myself, who have graduated from there have succeeded but had struggles when they were at the campus.

We've had students that failed there.

We've -- also have lost some students maybe to other schools that have been recruited as well.

So we have a lot of issues around recruitment and retention of Indian students and also making an atmosphere that's conducive to hosting those tribal students and their ideas and traditions and values that should be brought in to the state's largest university.

So we are really working on trying to work on those initiatives, not only -- and also recruiting faculty and also having facilities.

We do have the intellectual house there.

But there's a phase 2 to that, that we're going to try to get implemented as well.

>> Tom Layson: One of the maybe little controversial things you're going to have to deal with as a regent is the socially responsible investing.

What are your thoughts about that, particularly with your overlay of looking at resource protection and climate change and some of the things that are directly impacting tribal people and their resources?

>> Mr. Forsman: I haven't had too much exposure to that yet.

I'm the new regent.

But I've heard from the other regents that this is an issue that has been emerging, and it's difficult and complex.

And I think we ran into this as tribes with the Dakota Access Pipeline where there was the investment that was encouraged in certain institutions that invested in that particular project.

So I think that there's lessons to be learned there about educating ourselves and also educating those corporations and their shareholders and their boards about the impacts of their investments.

>> Tom Layson: Let's get to the resource piece a little bit specifically here in terms of Puget Sound and salmon recovery.

Governor Inslee's new budget, $187 million dollars for salmon recovery.

I'm sure you support that.

I keep asking people, though, as I shoot my summer specials on salmon and Puget Sound, don't we need an annual repeatable sustainable funding source for Puget Sound recovery?

>> Mr. Forsman: Yeah.

There's such a long list of things that need to happen in salmon recovery.

And it seems like we're paying like, you know, a portion of the payment.

It's like -- it's almost like paying a third of your mortgage, you know.

You're never going to get ahead if you only pay a third of your mortgage when you're more -- you should be paying the full price.

So it's been that -- it's been difficult.

We've looked at the federal government to do a lot of this, and they have competing watersheds in different parts of the country that we compete against that have other restorations.

So I think that this is great that we're moving forward on this.

There's some issues that are being addressed in the bill that -- about habitat preservation.

There's obstacles we hope that this will remove.

They're going to be somewhat controversial.

But, in order to save salmon, and we're really getting to the last minute here on it and also not only save salmon but also the Orca pods, etc., that we're going to really need to make some bold action.

And I think it's important that we may -- we really have to invest in hatcheries in the short term as we try to import more inf -- but to get a bigger influx of population into the system.

But we also have a half tab -- habitat for those fish to return to.

>> Tom Layson: And to try to encourage native runs as well.

>> Mr. Forsman: Right.

Exactly.

>> Tom Layson: The hatchery piece is very controversial, as I'm sure you know.

>> Mr. Forsman: I know it is.

And I feel that the problem is the timeline.

This is a timeline on that.

There is -- there is a balance there, just like in everything.

But I think that those are two important initiatives.

>> Tom Layson: Yeah.

The balance piece with a captive brood program possibly as kind of a backstop to a hatchery program to a habitat recovery program to encourage native -- it all has to come together.

>> Mr. Forsman: Right.

Habitat first, though.

>> Tom Layson: Yeah, yeah.

One of the controversial pieces of that, has the Suquamish Tribe or the Affiliated Tribes taking a position on or thinking about taking a position on Snake River dams?

>> Mr. Forsman: Well, Affiliated Tribes have taken a clear position on that.

And Suquamish Tribe supports that, as well, as a regional initiative.

So we need to bring the Columbia River and with the coast and the Salish Sea together as one big system because one thing as being the President of the Affiliated Tribes and Northwest Indians that unites pretty much every member is salmon.

And the salmon reach far and wide within the Pacific Northwest, not just in the marine areas but also in the fresh -- into the freshwater areas.

So we see that as an important investment.

>> Tom Layson: And that being the dam removal.

>> Mr. Forsman: Yes.

>> Tom Layson: I want to make sure I'm clear on that.

>> Mr. Forsman: Yeah.

Yes.

As far as Affiliated Tribes are concerned, we want to incorporate that.

Now, there's some things that have to happen.

And we've -- we know that there's controversy around it, and there's -- there's some obstacles, obviously.

But, you know, the governor and the federal leadership or federal delegation really want to engage with the stakeholders on the ground on the -- managing the impacts of those removal.

But the problem is, is that the tribes that rely on that salmon are at an emergency point because the salmon, sockeye and the other runs are at such a crucial extinct level of extinction that we have to take action.

>> Tom Layson: I mean, the returns have just been horrible.

>> Mr. Forsman: Right.

And the water temperature's too high, and the returns are miniscule.

So those native runs are at the brink of extinction.

>> Tom Layson: What's the timeline for that looking like?

The big -- the big collaborative listening piece I think is happening in 2022, correct?

>> Mr. Forsman: Yes.

Yeah.

As far as I know.

I haven't been specifically engaged in it as some of the tribes on the plateau have.

But, yeah.

It is one where we really are investing in that dialogue.

>> Tom Layson: Talking about the Suquamish Tribe specifically and your resources there along Agate Passage, what impacts are you seeing from climate change?

When you look down the road, what are you worried about?

What are the priorities there?

>> Mr. Forsman: I think we're, you know, very concerned.

We rely a lot on shellfish now because the salmon recovery has been, you know, in decline.

We do have a few minor salmon harvest opportunities, but we have a lot of people harvesting geoduck and Dungeness crab -- is ocean acidification I think is one of our big, big concerns.

We have had some, you know, flooding, high tides that are affecting our dockside -- I mean, dockside, stream side, shoreline side improvements; so we worry about that a little bit too.

And we also have a lot of people dig hard-shell clams, too.

So there's ocean acidification issue.

Water temperature in streams such as Chico Creek is another concern of ours.

>> Tom Layson: And water quality, as well, when we look at some of what's coming out of municipal treatment plants and some of those issues, pharmaceuticals.

There's so much there.

>> Mr. Forsman: Yeah.

And the larger wastewater treatment, we do have big challenges there.

But we also have challenges on some of the local beaches, too, where clam diggers go.

We found that pet waste is an issue.

We found that failing septics are an issue.

You know, we've even found out more about -- in regard to salmon is tire dust is an issue.

We find out that tire dust is an -- impacts coho salmon.

So there's a lot of issues out there, a lot of contributors to these challenge.

>> Tom Layson: Yeah.

I shot a special last year that focused a lot on those water quality issues and the tire dust issue and a few of those things and the interconnected nature of it all.

I think it tends to be overwhelming.

And there's a temptation to sort of throw your hands up and say, Man.

We've got to do habitat.

We've got to do the big river drainages.

We've got to do water quality.

How can we possibly do it?

Are you pessimistic or optimistic ultimately about seeing a restoration of salmon in Puget Sound?

>> Mr. Forsman: Well, I tend -- some days I'm pessimistic, and -- but I get up every morning and say, you know, we've got to -- we can't give up.

And I kind of tell the story, when I first started on tribal council back in the late '80s, there were beaches in Dyes Inlet that were permanently closed, what we call decertified.

And I thought -- you know, had these biologists were working on that with the Navy, the city of Bremerton and other places.

And they said this will never happen, and it happened.

And we continued to harvest there consistently.

Same thing when Poulsbo in Liberty Bay asked, God, I don't know if we'll ever get those open.

They're open now.

So they can -- it can happen.

We have to continue to invest.

We can't give up.

>> Tom Layson: And are shellfish gardens one of the things your tribe is doing?

>> Mr. Forsman: We have done a little of that, but we're primarily into enhancing beaches for wild harvest.

One of the big projects that we have been initiating, though, is the introduction and reintroduction, I should say, of cockles because we're seeing the absence of those in our local beaches.

And so we've got a real active program in trying to see cockles on beaches where -- the appropriate habitat.

And we're -- also been engaged with the Puget Sound Restoration Fund and other agencies and nonprofits on kelp introduction as well.

>> Tom Layson: Last 30 seconds for you.

If you could tell people what they need to be thinking about and talking about when it comes to tribal issues, what is it?

>> Mr. Forsman: It's so vast, it's hard to pinpoint one thing.

I think we've got to continue to think about our sustainable existence in this area and thinking about that as we move forward.

And that includes supporting stormwater treatment, supporting wastewater treatment and taking care of our beaches.

>> Tom Layson: Leonard Forsman, thanks for coming to Northwest Now.

>> Mr. Forsman: You're welcome.

>> Tom Layson: I want to thank Leonard Forsman for appearing on Northwest Now, where one of our core missions has always been including the voices of Native American peoples and members of all communities as we take a deeper dive into the issues and stories that affect all of us here in Western Washington.

And I also want to note that this is my 300th Northwest Now program since 2012.

So, as always, my personal note is that I hope this program got you thinking and talking.

To watch this program again or to share it with others, Northwest Now can be found on the web at kbtc.org.

And be sure to follow us on Twitter at Northwest Now.

Thanks for taking a closer look on this edition of Northwest Now.

Until next time, I'm Tom Layson.

Thanks for watching.

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