Northwest now is supported in part by viewers like you.

Thank you.

people of a certain age have a mental image of the old timey newspaper reporter and columnist, ink and paper, where the media and breaking news would cause the boss to shout Stop the presses Boy, have things changed, and frankly, not for the better.

Many newspapers are now little more than stripped down blogs with nothing close to a full time columnist on staff.

But holdouts remain and love them or not.

The News Tribune's Matt Driscoll is one of the survivors and he's our guest tonight on Northwest.

Now, We have done a number of programs over the years about struggling newspapers.

The Associated Press reports that about one third of the nation's newspapers have shut down since 2005, with about two thirds of the nation's newspaper journalists having been shown the door.

Here in the Pacific Northwest, there are a good number of new print style media outlets that seem to be doing okay, serving niche subscriber bases and fundraising.

But the number of printed advertiser supported daily papers is down to a handful, including the News Tribune, which is a little amazing considering the competition from the larger Seattle Times and a long period of money losing ownership that in 2020 saw a bankrupt McClatchy company go under the control of a New Jersey based hedge fund called Chatham Asset Management.

While the TMT is a shell of its former self, at least the area between Seattle and Olympia is in a so-called news desert where there's no daily newspaper.

Yes, a lot of the veteran staff departed over the years, but some still remain, including columnist Matt Driscoll, who's been writing all about Tacoma Pierce since 2017.

Matt, thanks so much for coming in Northwest.

Now, I read you all the time in the News Tribune, Greg, glad to get you in here and get a few questions and learn a little more about you.

Start then with your your biography.

Where did you come up and talk a little bit about your career path?

Sure.

Well, you know, I don't want to dive into the overlong narrative, but the short story is I'm a kid who grew up in job for the most part.

Job schools, went to college locally and figured out that I kind of wanted to write and then had to figure out a way to make some money doing that.

So I had a little bit of an untraditional path going through a lot of alt press papers covering music, arts, entertainment, that sort of thing, and one thing led to another.

I became an editor of the weekly Volcano here affiliated with the Fort Lewis Ranger and then went to Seattle Weekly.

And then I've been at the News Tribune for about almost nine years now.

And so I've been a Tacoma guy this whole time.

And, you know, I really just consider myself lucky to have a job writing about the community that I grew up in.

The community I care about the community that I feel like I know something about.

And, you know, to be able to put some shoes on my kids feet while doing it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And, and and it's unusual to be able to do this all in one market.

You didn't go to Topeka and then up to Billings and then come over.

You did the whole thing locally.

Well, I mean, it's true.

And I think if I had, you know, been one of those kids with a solid plan and forethought, maybe I would have gone the more traditional route.

You know, I really just kind of fell into it.

Like I said, I just wanted to figure out how to write.

You know, I've got a lot of colleagues who, you know, there's all sorts of reasons people get into journalism.

Some people really love to break big stories.

Some people love to hold government accountable.

All of it's very important.

My passion has always been kind of telling stories and people's stories.

And getting to do that in my hometown is just a thrill.

Ever had the idea of trying to get syndicated going national or anything, or do you really see the hyperlocal piece as being where the opportunity lies?

You know, I mean, I got an ego like the next person.

But what I would say is, the longer I do this, the more I appreciate the ability to do it here.

And, you know, it's not maybe I would enjoy a higher profile, but I think there's a lot to be said for building a building a career and building a body of work in a place that, you know, where it can resonate with people, you know, and making an impact there.

So I, I the more the longer I do this, the more I love it.

You're coming out of the News Tribune feet first, in other words, right?

That's right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Some day.

Yeah.

TNT has turned the commenting off.

And as a columnist, I'm sure that blow torch has been turned toward you more than once.

Talk a little bit about turning commenting off a lot of newspapers have.

How do you deal with the vitriol and what's people's biggest gripe about you?

Yeah.

Wow, that's a lot.

Well, and I hope it doesn't blow the whole premise of the question, but I, I think what's going on with the commenting right now is we're just in the process of switching our commenting.

Believe it or not, there are services that do that.

So I don't think it's some sort of deliberate decision to just wholeheartedly turn commenting off forever.

I think it has more to do with that.

But that being said, this is something we grapple with all the time.

You know, comment sections can be productive.

They can be a way to have community engagement.

They can also go really south really quickly.

And so, you know, if we've got a sensitive story or a story about a subject that we know is likely to draw a lot of just unnecessary hate and hurt, then we will turn the comments off on some of those things.

You know, in terms of the criticism, I hear as a columnist, you know, I share my opinions about all sorts of things.

I think people tend to attribute me with kind of a progressive vent.

And, you know, particularly in in the politics today, it's very hot.

And so, you know, I think a lot of the feedback, the the wrath that I face has to do with kind of that partizan divide where being a far out lefty, that's I mean, I'm a commie pinko, I think, in a lot of people's minds.

Okay, fair enough.

Talk a little bit about your philosophy of column writing.

A lot of us in the media have done it.

I've done it.

But, you know, we were spending 15 minutes on it doing is an aside.

It's observational.

It's you know, my dog's a great person and stuff like that.

The best column writing, though, when you're doing it full time is really combining journalism and the news flow and facts and melding that with some good analysis and opinion that you have formed through that news gathering process.

It's a hybrid almost, as opposed to just sitting at your barstool or giving your thoughts about a passing seagull.

And a lot of columnists, you know, have done that in other large markets.

But I think the best stuff combines those two.

And I see you doing that.

So you have this sort of ethos and pathos, heart and mind balance taking place.

How do you how do you approach that?

How do you not let your heart dominate?

How do you how do you balance that?

Sure.

I mean, I think you're forgetting my great seagull column of 2017.

But I mean, I think your analysis is spot on.

The only thing I would, I guess, add to that is I try to do everything you just mentioned while writing with a voice that that that that people connect to that has humanity and more most importantly, has a connection to this place.

I mean, I think that's what kind of makes the difference is not a moment.

Not only am I writing about issues, people care about things that affect them, offering analysis, doing the reportings you know, so it has journalistic integrity.

But then I'm also writing about it from from the perspective of someone that whether they know me in person or not, they feel like they know me because I'm from the same place that we share the same experiences.

And so I think that's a big part of it.

I know as newsrooms have shrunk and the News Tribune certainly has, you guys are, you know, pretty darn small.

Now, the editors role and this is across media, though the editors role has gone away.

Has gone away.

A lot of reporters are going straight straight to the straight to publishing without a guy with a green visor and a red pencil looking looking at their work.

Do you have an editor or is that person purely regional and you go straight to press?

How do you handle that?

Yeah, well, I do have an editor and it's a little bit of a unique situation.

I'm a I'm the Opinion Page editor.

So technically I am and Exactly.

And so I edit the OP Ed's letters to the editors, those sorts of things.

But for my own writing, I mean, just in terms of practice, I think it's a it's, it's an essential part of the part of the process.

I think editing can be difficult, but, you know, that's how.

But you run it by somebody.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I think for for the most part time, I mean, on a on a broad level, all of our reporters do, aside from instances where it's breaking news and a lot of times we'll have an editor go back and I mean all the time we'll have an editor go back and and post something once it's up.

But you know, everything we publish delegates.

Edit Now we don't have a huge copy desk like we used to write.

It can go on.

And so you're filling in that role.

You know, the typos that slip in now and all those sorts of things.

And I'm well aware of it.

And, you know, it is difficult, especially having, you know, I haven't been in the business forever, but long enough to remember how it used to be.

I mean, yeah, it's that can be challenging.

But I think by and large, we still we still have to check the boxes.

Yeah, this is a little there's an anecdote behind the scenes to this one and that is I think I somewhat disappointed.

One of your coworkers once caught me during a bad week and just kind of the cynical Tom came out talking to a class of, you know, want to be journalists, and but I still struggle with it.

You know, young kids who want to be in television and come up and and be in industries that are that are in deep trouble.

And newspapering most certainly is.

When you look industrywide, what do you tell young people?

What's your what's your guidance going forward?

And they say, I want I want to work on a newspaper and maybe write a column someday.

Yeah.

I mean, first and foremost, bless their hearts.

I mean, I understand where that cynicism is coming from, but I also think that those are the kind of those are the kind of desires and passions that have led me and the decisions that I've made.

And, you know, objectively speaking, I'm sure a lot of people along the lines would have said, you know, you're not making great career decisions.

But, you know, I firmly believe that it's important to follow your passion and your calling and to not be dissuaded by challenges.

You know, at the same time, you're right.

It's a very difficult industry right now.

You have to want it.

It can't be you know, you can't be looking for riches or 9 to 5 or can you be looking for a living?

Well, I yeah, I mean, it's not the the living you make if you do communications for, you know, the city of Fife or whatever.

And I think that's why you see a lot of journalists leaving and you've all always kind of say, I mean, a lot of times it's kind of been later in career, journalists will move to something where they can get a little bit more security, maybe lock in a pension or something like that.

But, you know, no, I mean, well, yes, you can make a living.

I make a living.

I hear, as I said, my kids have shoes.

I think the folks on our staff, they make a living as well.

I mean, I think this economy is hard.

I think they deserve to be probably paid more than they do.

But people make a living.

But, you know, to answer your question, you have to want it.

And I also, as difficult as things are right now, I have supreme faith in the importance of journalism and in particularly local journalism.

And I believe that people recognize that I'm scared that it will take further disruptions before that full recognition happens.

And a model that is sustainable and works really, really comes to fruition.

But I don't I don't think journalism is going to go away.

That was a nice segue into my next question is when you're looking at advertiser supported newspapers as opposed to blogs with subscribers or print style blogs with subscribers or benefactors, you know, specialized funds that that benefit them.

But advertiser supported what is the is there a pathway forward for traditional newspapers or does it what do you think the model looks like going forward?

And I know if you had the answer to that, you wouldn't be sitting here doing Northwest now.

But point being, what are your thoughts about that?

Right.

I mean, I think it is complicated, but I'm not entirely sure that it is as complicated as we make it out.

To me.

I mean, just to kind of lay the groundwork there, you know, I take it as second nature because this is my, my, my, my, my industry, my business.

But I mean, essentially what has happened is that advertisement revenue you've talked about has has dried up.

You know, there's the Internet now.

We don't there's no more classifieds.

There's no more reason really to run big Sunday spreads for the auto, you know, And so that revenue stream is what's left of it is disappearing.

And so the pivot you're making is to actually sort of sustain a newsroom by subscriptions.

And I realize that's difficult for people to understand, but you know how it used to be.

That's subscription just kind of paid for the price of delivery like it right.

You know, all the money was in, again, the classifieds, the big advertisements.

That's how we had the huge building and the and the big staff were those sorts of things.

And so you're seeing that pivot.

But again, to go back to my my previous point, at the end of the day, I believe a critical mass of people in this community and other communities do realize the value of of of of local journalism.

They might not fully realize it until it starts to go away or in some cases goes away too altogether.

But I do think there's a case to make there.

And I think for us now, it involves showing people that we're offering the coverage, insight, perspective, voices that has value and that they're not going to find anywhere else.

I'm sitting in a place the Seattle Times isn't right.

I mean, we're the only ones, you know, and I'm not knocking anyone else, but I mean, we are the only ones who cover this stuff with the breadth that we do.

You know, can does some good work there, there, there, there are.

I'm not trying to take anywhere, but.

But we're here.

Yeah.

And so you don't get to take that for granted.

You still have to prove it to people.

And I think that's what we're trying to do.

Here's one for And you've gestured at this a little bit, but I want to hit you on it specifically.

Does journalism still make a difference?

Can it affect change still?

Absolutely, Without a doubt.

Big and small.

I mean, you see you see state laws and state regulations changed based on coverage and things that are brought to light.

And you see small things.

I wrote a large package over the summer about, you know, the rise in vehicular homelessness and in particularly RV homelessness.

And it was, you know, based the driver on that story, the lead kind of voice in that was was a longtime hilltop resident who was living in his RV and had had it towed.

And long story short, the tow company stored it somewhere where it shouldn't have been stowed and it got vandalized and trashed.

And, you know, in his mind, everything that he had got stolen and, you know, they weren't going to reimburse him.

And lo and behold, he got compensated for that.

Now, you know, it's it's more difficult.

There are more there are more avenues or more places for people to find their information.

But yeah, there's also with the digital landscape, more people than ever reading your work, if you can figure out a way to to present it and reach people.

And that's the trick.

There's a cloud factor too.

I would say, though, 30 years ago, if the columnist for the News Tribune, if Matt ordered you to answer that phone and if a state lawmaker got a call from you, they knew they dang well, better answer it.

Better try to disclose the records or get things figured out.

Now, you know, they may or they may not because the media is so fragmented, You know, it could be a blogger.

It could be Matt for the News Tribune.

It could be anybody that has Has that generally helped or hurt the Enterprise, do you think?

I mean, I think it makes it more difficult.

I mean, at the end of the day, it's still transparency.

And if a lawmaker doesn't respond, doesn't return your phone call, you put that in the story.

And I think readers are smart enough, too.

So to to recognize a dodge when they see one.

You know, I don't run into it a lot, to be honest with you.

I have a pretty good rapport with with local leaders on every side of the aisle.

I think that comes to you know, that has a lot to do with just caring yourself professionally and treating people fairly, even when you're expressing, you know, differing opinions.

But, you know, these days you do run into it, particularly around election time.

You get, you know, the whole fake news thing.

You know, people will be like, I'm not talking to you because the media is biased and that's just their stance.

And yeah, or we don't have to do either editorial board because we were on Twitter the other day.

I mean, like there's some kind of an equivalency there.

Yeah.

I mean, I will say that we don't run into that as often as you might suspect it is out there.

It is an additional challenge, but it's at least locally, it's not as bad as it could be.

Talking about some local issues now and of course, the big one, many else.

What are your thoughts about the long term ramifications of the case itself, the outcome of the case?

How do you how do you see it?

I know you've done some writing on it, but what is that case going to mean to us maybe a year from now, five years from now?

What does it mean to Tacoma?

Yeah, it's interesting you ask that because we're in the process of putting the final touches on the editorial boards 2020 for Civic Agenda, and that's one of the things we're focusing on.

And you know, that question like, you know, some of the others you ask, I it's difficult for me to answer it with definitive.

I think what has been clear in that process of working on the civic agenda and, you know, we've we've we've talked to folks on on every side of it.

And the thing that gets me gives me hope is and I think sometimes what gets lost is no matter what side, quote unquote side you're on around law enforcement reform.

And and, you know, whether police acted appropriately or in I believe in the broader context, there is a lot of common ground around what people want and demand out of the police.

I think there's more common ground than than than than we sometimes give it credit for.

At the same time, it's incredibly clear that the divisions are very real, They're very ingrained.

They come first.

They come from some legitimate reasons.

And I don't think it's I don't think it's it's going to be an easy path moving forward.

I mean, we can talk a lot about, you know, how do we come together and move forward and, you know, get together and talk and understand each other.

And I think that's a huge part of it.

But I mean, I also think it's going to come down to compromise and it's going to come down to actual accountability, actual changes.

I think it's going to come down to slow challenging changes in police and police culture.

And that's going to take time.

And I think the I think the repercussions of not just the many Ellis case and his death, but but the history that preceded that into, you know, Tacoma and everywhere else, I mean, that's not going away anytime soon.

And the only thing we can do is face it head on, head on and listen to people and and not dig in.

What do you think about governance in Tacoma?

Some folks criticize it as being too parochial.

You know, the same people getting in the same room, having the same piece of chicken, you're in, you're out.

Do you think we have it right in Tacoma?

Do you think there's or not?

What are your thoughts on that?

Yeah, I mean, I think there's a lot I think there's some substance to that critique.

I think I've offered it in various shades over the years.

You know, at the same time, looking at our elected leaders, you know, what I see is, is again, people who were passionate about Tacoma and are dedicated to serving the community and taking the time that it takes to to do that effectively.

But, you know, on a system level, Tacoma has a what's technically considered a part time city council.

And so we have a city manager that nobody knows.

Right.

And so to twofold fold to that, I think a lot of people either blame or credit the city council too much and don't realize it.

The the the sway that the city manager and the city staff has over over what's actually happening and how policy is enacted and force.

But the other side of that is that because it is a part time position and because the pay is commiserate with with a part time position, it really limits the the folks who could even consider running.

I mean, you have to be willing to take on what is essentially a full time job and then some know for what the city considers part time pay and then, you know, not only that, but deal with the public and their frustrations and all.

And I mean, that's a big ask.

And so, yeah, at the end of the day, I think that's why you see Tacoma politics often involving and elsewhere, too often involving the same groups, the same names and the same people.

And, you know, I think if anything we can do to to diversify that to to expand the the access to not only folks for running, but folks to participate is a benefit at the time where there that we're recording this year right in the middle of rolling out the civic agenda column slash articles which are lengthy a lot of words I'm very deep I'm not saying they're not a good read, just sound like an editor.

Just long and good stuff.

And youth and youth violence at this point or a couple of the big bullet points that the paper has identified as being crucial going forward.

You know, on one hand, I read about Horseriding horseback programs and on the other hand, I'm reading about violent crimes and the murder rate, trying to put those two things together.

You guys attempt to do it in that column, and I'm left after reading it with just, my God, what are we going to do?

I'm I'm still in the same place.

Yeah.

Sorry.

No, it's okay.

That's what we do to inspire.

Inspire conversation.

Well, to back up the first installment of the Civic Agenda did deal with youth engagement and in part, youth violence and kind of the challenges that young people face.

I mean, I think a lot of times adults are kind of wringing their hands over, my God, what's going on with the kids?

And, you know, particularly now, I mean, if you look at this generation, having grown up with the Internet, with social media, I mean, their experience is unlike anything, any previous generation experience.

And you could say that about every generation.

But I think it's particularly distinct social media as well.

Yeah, not just social media, but the rapid the rapid spread of information.

I mean, you know, contents.

I mean, it just it's it's a game changer.

And so what we wanted to do was we wanted to listen to, instead of being more adults, telling, telling ours our views, telling people what they should do, we want to get off my lawn.

Yeah, we wanted to listen to the kids.

So we went over and we met with a group of students involved in the Hilltop Arts program at Hilltop Heritage Middle School.

It was it was a monday evening.

We chatted for about an hour and a half.

And, you know, for all the reasons that you mentioned, that it feels that it can feel hopeless, talking to those kids gave me a lot of hope.

I think they see a lot of the same problems that we see, but they have perspectives on it that we could benefit from hearing.

Yeah, Yeah.

Well, Matt, great conversation.

I know a lot of easy questions.

You know, the future of journalism and how the model is going to survive, why I write so many words and how we solve crime and yeah, so easy stuff.

Thank you, Tom.

It's always a pleasure.

I appreciate you coming to Northwest now.

Thanks.

A columnist is not supposed to please all the people all of the time, and Matt Driscoll certainly does not.

The bottom line, that's part of what a columnist is supposed to do to challenge your thinking.

Do either give you a reason to stand firm on what you believe or crazy as it sounds to maybe get you to rethink a little and see things from another perspective.

My thanks to bat for coming to Northwest now.

I hope this program got you thinking and talking.

You can find this program on the web at kbtc.org and stream it through the PBS app or listen on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.

That's going to do it for this edition of Northwest Now and Till Next Time.

I'm Tom Layson.

Thanks for watching.

You already watched Northwest now on television Friday nights at 730 on KBTC.

But did you know you could stream the Northwest Now podcast anytime, anywhere?

The latest program streams on the Northwest Now page at kbtc.org.

But you can also listen to the entire library by searching Northwest now on the Apple podcast app and be sure to follow.

To get the latest updates on the Northwest Now podcast, engage with the people and issues affecting all of us here in Western Washington.