- Randy Nagitsy of Fort Washakie uses sewing in education, but it's a far cry from the old home economics course that many of us remember.

He uses star quilting as the basis not just for classroom learning, but for creativity, technical training, community building, and cultural awareness.

I'm Steve Peck of Wyoming PBS.

This is "Wyoming Chronicle."

You're here at Central Wyoming College in Riverton where there's a big education conference, tribal education conference every summer.

And you have a presentation that caught my eye when I saw it on the schedule.

It's called Stitching Together.

And the idea is using sewing in a classroom setting for academic reasons, for cultural reasons, for community-building reasons.

- Yes.

Yes.

- I remember sewing being taught when I was in school, but it was more, I'd say like a home ec kind of a thing.

The same way you might teach someone to change a tire, here's how you sew on a button.

The thing you do is much deeper than that, right?

- Yes, I would say in terms of the community building part was a main component for me and also building confidence within our high school seniors.

And so kind of merging that together and getting them comfortable to see what the community of Fort Washakie was for me growing up.

So it was more meaningful for them to experience that.

- And there are many ways you might have gone about instilling this, but somebody, you included, settle on sewing as a way to do it.

What about that particular activity, that skill made it suited for what you're trying to do?

- For me, going back to boarding school.

Before I graduated from Fort Washakie Charter High School when they first opened, but going to Chemawa Indian Boarding School in Salem, Oregon, I went there for a quick minute, and part of the Native American arts classroom as a junior, that was a requirement.

- And this is where you met a particular teacher that made- - Yes, Ms.

Cook.

So we had to participate in all different various forms of Native American art, whether, you know, we had to do beading projects and we worked on making drumsticks.

And the final was doing a star quilt.

- A star quilt.

- Yes.

And I remember like I was nervous of sewing my fingers together 'cause a lot of us never had used a sewing machine before.

And during that time, just kind of looking back and reflecting on her instructions and how she was very patient with all of her students at that time and walking us through the process and making a quilt.

- Well, I guess you'd have to be.

I mean, you said you hadn't used a sewing machine.

Had anybody?

- There were some students I can recall from back then who were very advanced at it.

- [Steve] They already were?

- Yeah, so they would jump in and provide additional instruction.

- You were talking about sewing machine.

You were not talking about needle and thread hand stitching.

So you're having to, in addition to everything else, you're learning to use a machine.

- Yeah.

- What's the significance of the star quilt in particular in your culture?

- So for me, the significance of the star quilt is family bonding.

So when I did the star quilt in boarding school, Ms.

Cook's class, we had to cut diamond by diamond and it was very tedious.

And so the first quilt I made, my mom actually still has from back then from 2004, and those diamonds were cut out singular.

So you have the overall diamond and the different diamonds in there that make the big diamond.

But with that, my family, like I remember my mom and my grandma asking about that 'cause they were like, "Well, how did you make it?"

So I told them and they're like, "That's really confusing," you know, 'cause it was a different method of making it.

And they're like, "Well, we'll show you this method."

And it was using the strip method.

And so I had to learn a whole new way of how they were putting these strips together and how they were cutting them at the 45 degree angle, which added more math to it.

But it was a lot quicker though.

- There's a lot of talk in education, you're an educator and know this, about what we call the STEM topics, the science, the technology, engineering, math.

And they are important.

They're important to the economy and to training up young people and creating jobs for people to stay in technology and business, all that stuff.

But some people worry that that advance is coming sort of at the expense of what we might call the humanities, the reading, writing, art, that kind of thing.

Here's something that's a creative process, making a quilt, but you just said there's more math to it.

And in fact, there's a lot if you're gonna do it right out there.

So how good were you at math before you started this or did you know you were?

- I was horrible at math.

Again, a lot of trial and error.

So I remember like one of the first times transitioning into learning the strip method that my family practices, I didn't have my measurements equal and I was missing... So to get a perfect three inch diamond, you have to cut three and a half inches, right?

And you have to take into consideration your quarter seams on each end.

So you are taking in a lot of accounting for each corner.

So you're accounting for these quarters.

And I just went a clean three, three inches for the strip.

And with that, the star did not come out in the end.

It turned into a whirlwind.

So it shifted.

- And there's no such value placed on the whirlwind?

- Maybe for the creative outlet, but in this case, I was like, "What did I do wrong?"

And I was like looking over the instructions and then my mom picked it up.

She was like, "You didn't count for your seams."

And I'm like, "Okay."

So having to take everything apart again.

And that's why in my presentation, I talked about that, is a real learning comes when you're having to take apart your work.

You know, that's when you're gonna remember and it's gonna click like, "Okay, I will not make that mistake again."

- A lot of people say that what you learn is to fail.

- Yes, exactly.

- You'll do it better the next time and you'll understand why.

So here, we have a math sort of a technical topic combined with a creative one because you say as well that before long, you had to get these stitching and the strips and the diamonds and all these things right in account for the overlap, but then you got to choose color in the order to put the colors in.

So you get to tap your creative side.

What was that like for you before you went in?

Did you consider yourself a creative person?

- Well, my grandma's still alive.

She' Eastern Shoshone from here.

- What's her name?

- Leola Nagitsy.

She's gonna be 93.

She lives in Chubbuck, Idaho.

And she and my grandpa used to do a lot of bead work and sewing as well.

So in Fort Washakie, in the Shoshone community, that's very prevalent and they understand color theory more than anyone.

So even before you start picking out colors, you would pick her method and my mom's method was finding the print and blending the colors and ensuring that they have a smooth blend.

But, you know, for me, it was like, "Eh, you know, I don't wanna do that."

But overall, I would do that unwillingly, you know?

I'm like, okay, I'm actually, that's ingrained in me.

- Didn't necessarily know you were doing it.

- Yeah.

It was like, "Okay, this is how it is."

So for me, working with the high school seniors now, you know, I was like, "Okay, you guys can pick your colors."

And I just kind of stepped back, let them pick what colors they wanted, which print that they wanted, and they mixed them how they wanted, but I did not, you know, say, "This is how you should do it."

- That's something where they don't have to worry so much about, the precision mathematic formula.

- Yes.

- [Steve] They can begin to sort of make it their own.

- Yeah.

- The image we're seeing now behind us, this is your work we're seeing?

- Yes.

So in the image there is this first star right here.

I had to do a demonstration.

So before even going into showing the students how to do it, I would do half the star, and then I did one diamond, then I did the strips.

So that way I had them posted up on the board on the stage where we were sewing at with the students and they would be able to take direction from there.

So that was the example I had.

And so the next two are from students actually.

- [Steve] I see.

- The second one, you know, right here, he did elk teeth, and he threw in turquoise and red, and, you know, that was his arrangement he wanted.

- [Steve] Elk teeth.

Now get more specific there.

What do we see?

- [Randy] It's an elk tooth print fabric from an Indigenous artist.

- That's the black with the white elements on it?

- [Randy] Yeah.

- What do you think of it?

- I think it's awesome.

I like the way the red and the turquoise, it makes it stand out more.

- How old was this student roughly?

- He was about 17.

- 17.

- Yeah.

- And it's a boy.

- Yeah.

- So I wanna talk about that just a little bit.

- Okay.

- I think many people assume that sewing and quilting primarily is done more by women than by men, by girls than by boys.

But it also strikes me that this would be something really fun for a boy to do if you can give him the right environment to be sort of feel, what's the word, safe, to try it without being ridiculed or under pressure or something.

That's what another thing that your program is providing, right?

- Yes.

So again, within the community, a lot of the best artists that I've seen, you know, are males.

You know, we have a lot of amazing beadwork artists and quilters and people who do different forms of art and they are predominantly male.

But with that said, providing that space and the instruction for the male, the boy participants, they were very meticulous with the measurements.

They knew how to use the quilting ruler that, okay, this is three and a half.

No, they were extra careful with lining up their strips when they were cutting.

When it came down to checking their measurements, they were good with the little quilting ruler and making sure that they were hitting the quarter seams.

And I felt like it was a lot more easier for them.

I don't know why, but in this scenario, it was.

- We don't want to perpetuate these stereotypes necessarily, but there was a boy, some boys, there was a gadget they could use, a ruler they could measure.

It was precise.

It made sense to excel at that first.

- Yeah.

And part of it too is outside of the quilting part of it, it's a puzzle.

It's a challenge.

You starting to challenge yourself now and ensuring that you're getting to hit those points.

- Thinking back to when you were in with Ms.

Cook, how hard was it for you to get started in that?

Did you feel just terribly awkward about it or what do you remember?

- I just remember wanting to rush through it 'cause I'm just like, "I just want this done."

And that was, again, looking at our programming is like, okay, I don't want to rush this process here.

I want students to understand that the real learning comes when you mess up, you're gonna have to take it apart for one, but also that you're gonna learn patience, you know?

You can't rush through things.

You can't rush through life, you know?

You're gonna have to step back and fix things, learn how to manage it, manage your time.

And it's okay if you mess up, you know?

That's where the seam ripper came in and they're taking things apart.

And also the art of conversation, the art of being able to communicate, which is another big component.

And a lot of the culture classes and language classes I've sat in, that was one thing that was apparent was... Even my grandparents used to say, "Indians forgot how to visit with one another."

Meaning, I think they're talking about it generationally.

You know, like, the disconnect with social media, you know?

What happens when elders aren't coming to the room or adults come in the room, the younger folks will leave, you know, or step out naturally.

- So it's not just conversation as listening to what Ms.

Cook was saying to you.

It's the social aspect of getting together around the quilting table together and talking while you're working while you're in community.

I just love hearing about Ms.

Cook.

I think every person watching remembers a particular teacher like that who years and years later stands out because he or she made a real difference, not necessarily because it was the sweetest person in the world, and maybe she was, but got you to want to learn and saw to it that you did.

From there, can you see what the transition was in your own mind that made you think, "Maybe I can be an educator and I could use this with students myself when I'm older."

How did that start to happen?

- I would say my experience in my undergrad at Haskell Indian Nations University in Lawrence, Kansas.

I got a student job while I was there and it was facilitating a craft room.

And in there, it was funded through this grant and I would just basically unlock the door and, you know, we had supplies there and we would help people either if they were doing some bead work or if they were trying to sew something.

Again, we had supplies on hand and providing that 20 hours a week.

And so there was the first time that I kind of tapped back into it because I had a couple people asking about star quilts.

They're like, "Do you know how to make one?"

And I'm like, "Well, I do."

You know?

- As a matter of fact, I do.

- Yeah, I can, but I never, you know, written out my instructions.

It's just off the top of my head, you know?

- And that's an important part, isn't it?

- Yes.

And so for me, if you're not experienced with it and you look up instructions trying to download PDFs for it, it's gonna look like gibberish 'cause, you know, you have to know your way around it and know the measurements.

But you know, even now, having to create those instructions, I was like, "Okay, that's where it began."

I would say it would be at Haskell.

- If I want students to learn this, how am I going to create the instructions for them?

- Yes.

- Wonder how many people in their lives have to do that, create instructions?

- It would even test you as an educator.

You know, like, "Okay, how am I going to do this?"

And for me, it was microdosing information.

And so having to start out with that process.

And so with Haskell, the sewing of the quilt, of the star quilt, it was a backdrop.

So that was during the Dakota Access Pipeline in North Dakota.

So the tension in Indian country was very heavy with the pipelines that were going up in North Dakota.

And you know, Haskell has a rich history, a boarding school history, and it's all Native American, so we're all federally recognized.

So we are in this course together.

And so a lot of times, people that were coming in to the room that I was facilitating, it was just they needed to vent, be around someone, disconnect again.

- It was the social thing you were talking about.

- Yeah, just the social aspect of it, male or female.

And a lot of times, it was just to be around people and you know, be themselves.

- The time between you were in Ms.

Cook's class and the time you started Haskell was some years, right?

- Yeah.

- How old were you when you got to Haskell?

- I went when I was 28.

- [Steve] 28.

- Yeah.

- So being a non-traditional student made it all the more- - It kind of just clicked again once I had students asking me about it.

I'm like, "You know what?

I can do this.

I know how to do this."

And it was testing for me.

(laughs) And I got to do my first run at it.

But again, I realized that that was just the backdrop.

When that had happened with, again, going back to DAPL, we were called on by Manny King, and he was well known in Indian country in Indian education.

And we were asked to do sweat dresses for the women on the front line.

And this was during the water protectors, you know, country.

- So you're talking about making garment that these women would wear as part of a demonstration against the pipeline or- - Yes.

- During the development of the pipeline.

- Yes.

The women on the front lines, you know?

And we've seen the images and everything that was coming through.

So with Haskell's history, it was a no-brainer.

And so a lot of us couldn't be there physically because you know, we were in school in Kansas, but we all did our part to ensure that that group were able to get the sweat dresses that they were requesting.

- As a younger person before Haskell, you were at another boarding school in Oregon.

What's the name of it again?

- Chemawa Indian Boarding School.

- How did you happen to go there?

- I always heard about it.

I always heard about it and I wanted to go.

- You wanted to go.

- And I did go for a trimester.

It wasn't a regular semester.

They went by trimesters, but I enjoyed it, but I wanted to come home.

- Yeah, the boarding schools in recent years, based a lot on that happened in earlier generations, have come under some real and justified criticism for things that went on.

You say you wanted to go.

Experience was mostly positive for you, I take it?

- Yeah.

My grandparents went to boarding school and loves it.

Both, I think my grandma and my grandpa graduated on my Navajo side from Intermountain Indian Boarding School in Brigham City, Utah.

And that was in '59.

And my mom also graduated from the same school in the '70s.

So looking at their experience from then to my mom's experience in the '70s, like she loved it.

And that was, you know, down in Utah.

And my grandpa went to Stewart Indian School, boarding school out in Nevada.

And so I will say that would be post- - Some of this knowledge had come out by then.

- Yeah.

So not looking at the earlier Richard Pratt days of boarding school, but looking at how self-determination changed the boarding schools for them to revitalize language and culture.

- And now that's become an all important part of what many of them do, I believe, as opposed to 100 years ago when that was trying to do exactly the opposite.

- Yeah.

When I was at Chemawa, I believe they were celebrating their 120th something year of being open, and it was a big deal.

When I was in Kansas, same thing.

They were celebrating their 125th year, I want to say.

And they were talking about a lot of the historical events that were happening during that time.

- These schools are surviving and they've made progress.

- And I feel like to add onto that, looking at what the schools have become, so look, for me, speaking about Haskell, I will say I got my bachelor's in Indigenous American Indian Studies and, you know, jumped into the bridge program to work on my master's at KU.

And being around a lot of students who got into different programs, such as in WashU, the Brown School for social work, second best program in the nation, having Native students go off to Harvard, go into law school.

And again, we talk about Indigenous studies.

As Natives in the program, we say, "Why would you take Indigenous studies in any other college university besides Haskell?

That doesn't make sense, you know?

You are living history when you are in there 'cause you are surrounded by it."

The museum, the cemetery, the conversations, you know?

So it was a perfect place for Indigenous students to go and reclaim education and their identity.

- You're not a day-to-day, everyday classroom teacher, but you do go into schools.

I think you said you're in more than one.

And you set up the machines and you show students how to get started in this work.

- Again, I'm the Office of Indian Ed coordinating director.

So I oversee three schools: Fort Washakie Elementary School, Fort Washakie Middle School, and the high school.

So on top of my administrative duties, this was something that is very important.

So with my background, being in this type of position I'm in, you're the face of the community, you know?

You have to be present and show up and know your stuff.

So with that, I remember reaching out to the student council and I'm like, "Hey, are you guys interested in learning this?"

And they were really for it and they said, "Yes."

And so I was able to get their seventh period, which was their Road to Awesome, I believe, is what it's called.

- Road to Awesome.

- Yeah.

And it worked out perfectly.

So for that 50 minutes, maybe 30 minutes sewing time, three to four times a week, so an hour and a half-ish a week, I got to sit in there and sew with them, setting up the machines, you know, taking everything down, jumping and troubleshooting machines for them, you know, so you're boots on the ground with them.

And that right there, again, kind of reflecting back, going to Ms.

Cook, that's how she was.

She was jumping from machine to machine to machine, you know, correcting us.

I'm like, "Oh man, I have so much more respect for her now."

So this past year, creating the Five Buffalo Day Youth Ambassadorship Program, that was me, again, trying to capitalize and work with students to develop those skills.

Because when they first opened, we were less than.

We were not supposed to make it.

We were criticized, made fun of in the community in Lander.

"You guys are not a real high school," and so forth, you know, just all the negative comments a young person could hear.

But I look at myself being the first graduate at that high school and knowing different people who have graduated from there who have really good jobs and are happy in their lives.

It's like that is success, not just the academic part, but the genuine happiness of where they're at in their life.

And so that's what I want our students to walk away with and to understand that they can have that part of it.

- How long have you been doing this in the Fort Washakie district now?

- Last year was my first year.

Yeah.

- We're happen to be talking here in August.

The new school year is coming up shortly.

- Yeah.

- Are you anticipating enthusiastic second year of it?

- Yes.

So last year, when I first accepted this position, a lot of people, the number one thing was our cultural events.

So Fort Washakie School, we've been kind of out of the game lately.

Previous OIE coordinator directors were doing it quarterly.

And so it wasn't an every month thing, nor were they aligning it with our core value structure at the school.

So I had a lot of people asking me, "Are you bringing that back?

Are you going to do this?"

So again, when you're in that type of position, you're the face of the community and you have to provide that opportunity and resource to people.

- The answer better be yes.

- Oh yes.

And not only to the community, but even our leadership.

I have to meet with our Shoshone Business Council quarterly and I have to tell them what we're doing and I get questioned a lot, "How are you doing this?

What are you doing?"

And one of the big events was our Five Buffalo Days, Manikit Bozhan Davay, which Fort Washakie School was known for.

And through the past couple years, even post-COVID, it dwindled down to a day, maybe two days.

So they've never experienced a full Five Buffalo Days.

This is a lot of community collaboration.

Working with Rachel Ynostrosa, our Eastern Shoshone culture director.

- I'm glad you mentioned her.

We were hoping to have her here with us today.

She was unable to be here, but an important person to recognize.

- She is very vital to what I do.

And she started in late fall, so we were both new, but we both had the same expectations.

With her on board, we partnered up, and we opened the doors to all the tribal programs within our community.

And so that's why we were able to host everything that we were at this capacity.

So basically, we set our own bar.

It's a lot of planning and coordination and a lot of moving parts.

And part of that for me was, it was a very tough year, very busy year because the community did not anticipate what we were gonna do, like how we were gonna do it.

So this second year, already have tribal programs and everyone reaching out, trying to get on our calendar.

- You mentioned the word expectations, the ones that you and your partner had.

Now the community has those two in the right way, expecting you to do more and to do well and expecting to take part in it.

- And part of that too is, from my point of view, looking at our community of their responsibility, their sovereign tribe.

And that's one thing within Indigenous studies, going back to academics, is you're a treaty tribe so you exercise those sovereign rights.

You need to start having these different committees, commissions put in place to house your work.

During these sessions we had last year, there were some juniors that came in.

They would kind of pop in the classroom and they would, you know, see what everyone's doing.

So they have an expectation that they're gonna have to make a quilt this year.

So we're gonna keep it rolling.

- You said a moment ago that Fort Washakie School had sort of been out of the game.

Randy Nagitsy, it sounds like you're getting back in the game, and something as simple as beginning by sewing a straight line on a piece of cloth, great idea, great expansion and development of it to some many bigger things.

It's quite a program that you've got and I congratulate you for it and wish you the best going forward with it.

- Thank you.

(rousing music)