>> Northwest Now is supported, in part, by viewers like you.

Thank you.

>> [Background Music] And it feels like the crime rate is getting out of control.

>> Tacoma, getting attention for all the wrong reasons these days.

The city moves one homeless camp only to see another spring up somewhere else.

And while the link between crime and homelessness is debatable, when combined with calls to defund police, a patrol officer shortage, and leadership's gnawing fear of making a mistake when it comes to holding people accountable, it has all emboldened criminals to take advantage.

And take advantage they have.

So here comes a new coalition called Tacoma Safe, looking to bring order back to Tacoma's main streets.

Is it a right wing reaction to a bad case of compassion fatigue, or a reasonable way to take back Tacoma?

That's the discussion next on Northwest Now.

2022 has already seen nine homicides in Tacoma.

Bear in mind, that number can change at any moment.

But you won't likely know about it since easily understandable crime statistics are not published on the city's website.

But I digress.

Last year ended with more than 30 killings, a number that has been rising steadily in recent years.

The trendline for other violent crime is sloping upward too.

And Tacoma still has the highest violent crime rate in the state, with dispatch times up sharply.

>> Our city was shaken by 31 homicides each year.

Vandalism and property destruction were up 15%.

We saw a year-over-year increase of nearly 20% in assaults.

Motor vehicle thefts were up 66%.

And we saw an increase of more than 85% in arson, making this by far the highest on record in the last five years.

And we know that everyone is feeling the effects of these crimes.

As crime continues to increase, the department is hovering at approximately 50 vacancies out of a 364 fully-funded, commissioned police positions.

To put this into perspective, our police department has historically seen a 4% vacancy rate.

And what we're seeing now is an unprecedented 14%.

Now, while acknowledging that nationwide increases in violent crimes and the dedicated efforts of our police department to prevent and solve crimes when it comes to this issue, the state of our city is unacceptable.

>> So enter Tacoma Safe.

The group claims 200 members and appears to be a cousin to Safe Seattle, which also started as a Facebook page forum several years ago.

Tacoma Safe started last fall and is fronted by Angela Connelly, wife of well-known Tacoma plaintiffs attorney and former Senate candidate Jack Connelly, both strong Catholics and prominent in Tacoma City Club.

An estimated 500 people attended the group's business summit at the LeMay Museum back in January.

Many in the crowd fed up with feeling unsafe on the streets of Tacoma, or perhaps even worse, having their customers feel unsafe coming to Tacoma.

As background, Angela Connelly was a key figure in the summer of 2016 when a group called Just Want Privacy gathered support for I-1550, which was the so-called bathroom bill, countering the State Human Rights Commission's ruling that people should be able to use the bathroom of their choice.

So she's been on the left's radar for a while and is feeling a little heat about Tacoma Safe because of it.

Angela is joined by Wane + Fitch Furniture owner Brett Johnson, who was a council candidate last year and who builds custom furniture from his shop off 72nd Street in southeast Tacoma.

And Stephanie Grassi, a Tacoma real estate consultant.

Welcome all of you to Northwest Now.

Great to have a conversation about Tacoma Safe.

Angela, I want to start with you.

You know as well as I do when you start talking a little bit about law and order and addressing some of the problems in Tacoma, there's going to be pushback.

So I want to let you address what are some of the biggest misunderstandings about what Tacoma Safe is trying to achieve?

>> So the mission itself is radical.

At the time we started, there was a 5-to-4 split on the city council.

Five wanted to defund the police, four did not.

We started to be both/and.

So we basically the first thing we did was try and get refunding back to the police.

We wanted to promote transformation as essential, while also saying, we need more safety.

Because the situation is Tacoma has the complete highest rates in 26 years for homicides.

There is out-of-control crime everywhere.

>> So, now, this is in all cities.

It's a nationwide phenomena, right?

>> It is, it is.

But the signs and the evidence and the victimization has been over the top.

And basically it's citizens, Tacoma Safe is just citizen.

There's no one paid.

It is simply people from every neighborhood, from every business district.

Every single citizen is welcome.

Because we're just gathering saying, we're not going to be quiet any longer; we're not going to let this happen to our city.

>> A lot of the citizens that you've engaged are business owners, obviously, who have an interest in a vital Tacoma and Pierce County.

So, Brett, I want to talk about that a little bit.

Wane + Fitch Furniture, you have to not only have employees show up there and do what they're supposed be doing, but you also want customers to roll by and feel okay about that too.

What is going on in Tacoma?

What's the problem?

What are you trying to address?

>> Sure.

So, as you mentioned, we've experienced a multitude of challenges.

Especially with handcrafted furniture, we're drawing people from all over the region, not just from Tacoma.

And when we ask people to come spend money for handcrafted, locally-made furniture from trees that are salvaged from yards literally all over the area, we want them to have a pleasant and safe experience.

And some of the folks that have been in encampments around the business have presented safety threats both to employees and to customers.

And that started my call to action to get involved with Tacoma Safe and help to right that.

>> Stephanie, you're also a piece of the business community, and I think interestingly in the real estate component of this, where we need to attract people.

You're asking people to invest.

So talk to me a little bit about what's going on in Tacoma and how you see that from a business perspective when it comes to real estate.

>> Well, I guess what I would just say that the reason why I originally got involved, it kind of goes back to the fact that, you know, I'm born and raised here.

And you're correct, it's like we're having all these people that are moving into Tacoma.

And what once was such a desirable city to live in and businesses were thriving, it's now -- these crime rates are skyrocketing.

And people feel unsafe in their neighborhoods.

And so I find that to be a huge problem.

>> So Angela, the critics say, well, here comes Angela Connelly, she wants a crackdown.

Is this a crackdown, or is this something else that you're trying to achieve?

>> It's actually more radical than a crackdown.

We want everyone safe.

And we're not going to stop advocating until everyone is safe.

But the radicalness comes in in that we're speaking out for neighborhoods, we're speaking out for businesses.

We're also speaking out for people who are unhoused.

We think the answer for a thriving community is when there is enough behavioral health and addiction resources that actually intercept into some of the causes of the problems.

We need all sorts of housing more.

And I think that's how we get to a beloved community.

>> And that's what a lot of the critics say.

Say, forget the police and the response times, let's get housing going.

Is that a little bit of a fantasy?

What's your take on that, Brad?

I mean, are we going to really be able to go there and build all the houses we need before we address some of the problems you're concerned about, or not?

>> Well, I think two portions of that discussion are very true.

One, we can't build enough housing fast enough.

And two, we can't get enough police fast enough.

We need both at the same time.

People need safety.

People need services.

And we need to work together and really accomplish this from all different angles so we can get people the help that they need.

>> One of the things I struggle with when I'm talking about this issue or even when I'm writing it, the script, is I want to keep myself from automatically conflating homelessness and criminality.

It's easy to slip into it.

I have to catch myself.

Any perspective, Stephanie, you're willing to chime in on this too?

Are they related?

How are they related?

And how do we not paint all the homeless people with the same broad brush?

>> Well, statistically, I would say about 20% of the homeless are the ones that are actually creating most of the crime.

That's at least what I've understood.

And so what we need to do is we need to work with the other 80% that we can, like Angela was saying, if we can get them in the right area where they need to go -- which, in some cases may be a mental health issue or addiction, help them get some training in jobs.

I mean, that's ideally what we want to do is.

>> Right, ideally, yeah.

>> Is get people back out and independent.

>> So what are some of your proposals, Angela?

You talk about safe parking and safe camping.

You'll notice that in both Seattle and Tacoma right now, camps are being swept.

Do you think that's in part because of movements like Tacoma Safe?

And what are your thoughts about how do we solve this in the short term before we build all the housing and all the treatment facilities that people unanimously say they want?

>> Yes.

I think that, you know, we do want it all.

And we're advocating for it all.

I do think that the encampments themselves -- and we have relationships with people living in the encampments.

They are inhumane, they're inhumane for the people living in them and abandoned in them.

They're also inhumane for the business across the street or the children in the neighborhood.

And so we need, absolutely, spaces that are safe and have security and have pathways to services.

So one of our big things that we're advocating for and I feel it's a big injustice that we don't have it yet is a safe camping site that is managed and that has services.

So we do this every day, we are out looking at spaces.

We work with the leaders.

And the leaders have been open to this idea.

We also work with -- there is amazing groups who've been out there in the trenches a long time, like the Coalition to End Homelessness.

They're all doing things.

Everyone's doing it.

We're just like we're finding where's the niches that need some help, because we want to -- not only do we do all this advocacy, we go out and paint over graffiti.

>> Right.

But there's a voice of business piece of this though, too.

>> Yes.

Everyone's voice matters.

And that's -- it's interesting.

I think the world is recognizing this right now.

We can't just let leaders lead.

We all have to roll up our sleeves.

>> So that's a good question.

I want to take all of your temperatures on that.

In recent weeks or months, do you feel like Tacoma City Council and, to another extent, to Pierce County, attention and concern is going down, level going up?

How do you feel about the response?

I know you had the big meeting at LeMay.

The leadership showed up.

Brett, does that feel genuine to you?

Are you optimistic?

>> It does.

We're having much more productive discussions with both city and county leaders than we did when the organization started.

And I think it's a result of us getting out there on the ground and working with all the neighborhoods and all the different concerns and really staying committed to, we need services and we need action and we need results.

And we my differ on opinion, but we're ready to listen and understand why we differ in opinion, and then bridge the broken gap of why we don't have whatever it is that we're trying to achieve.

And that's I think a large part of where our success has been.

>> You mentioned the R word, which is my favorite, "results."

>> Yeah.

That comes from the business side.

>> Yeah.

What else is there, you know?

So, Stephanie.

>> I'm laughing because I feel the same way.

>> What's your take on -- your perception of how city and county leadership is listening and responding to this?

>> I agree with Brett, and I think Angela would too.

We had such a great turnout at LeMay.

Since then, there has been several meetings that you guys have both been more involved in even than I have.

But they're meeting.

They're listening.

They're coming up with ideas.

We're helping with that.

And I think that's the biggest piece is that they can't do it all by themselves.

And we are out looking for locations and coming to them and saying, hey, what do you think about this?

And now we're trying to coordinate with the county as well.

And so I believe -- I'm seeing from the inside that we are getting somewhere.

>> Ultimately, Angela, do you hope to be a pain in the side or a helper who sweeps in?

How do you see yourself and the organization ultimately?

>> I think it's an empowerment of the voices of the people.

And to encourage them and to provide stages for them to all speak passionately about how much they love this city and how they're not going to let it die.

And so it's a little bit of both, you know.

I'm a mom of nine kids.

Sometimes I use my inside voice and sometimes I use my outside voice.

Meaning, collaboratively.

But yes, encouraging and putting pressure and all of it.

We all have to use our voices.

>> And, Brett, do you think that -- does the business community need a hammer here or a piece of sandpaper, you know?

I'm trying to use some woodworking tools there.

>> I appreciate that.

I think both is the answer.

Because when you're the victim of a crime, the only thing you want hear is how the crime is going to stop.

You're not necessarily concerned with the root causes of that crime.

And so we're working on both of those issues to be a filter and good those channels and voices and needs and appropriate -- what we call it -- fixes initiated and shaped.

>> Stephanie, last question for you.

Ultimately, optimistic, pessimistic about this being solved?

Long timeline?

Short timeline?

How do you feel about it?

>> I'm ultimately I'm optimistic.

And I think that -- we're looking at longevity here, right?

We have to take I guess in some sense aggressive action, which I believe we have, and in turn, it will end up, over time, we will see the results that we need to see.

>> Good.

Great conversation.

Thanks all of you for coming to Northwest Now.

>> Thanks for having us.

>> Thank you, Tom.

>> The Tacoma Action Collective says, it's not more cops that are needed but rather more services for youth, mental health care workers, more shelter and affordable housing, and alternatives to police when it comes to calls for service.

That is what you might call the other side in this issue.

Everybody wants and end to crime, but the question is how you get there.

And for progressives, the answer is more wraparound services encompassing every age and every need.

Tacoma is the focus, but it's a countywide problem as well.

Some 3,300 homeless people are thought to reside in Pierce County, and most figure there's probably more.

The county's new comprehensive plan to end homelessness puts the price tag for solving a lot of these problems at least $120 million a year.

And again, we have to be careful not to link homelessness and criminality across the board.

But they do impact each other, each demanding time and resources in a two-front, sometimes related battle.

Joining us now is Evelyn Fielding Lopez, a Tacoma lawyer, housing and homeless advocate, and the host of Crossing Division -- a podcast.

Evelyn, thanks so much for coming to Northwest Now.

We're talking about Tacoma Safe but also the response to Tacoma Safe.

Is Compassion Tacoma a direct response?

Is a counterpoint?

How do you view it?

>> Well, you know, to be frank with you, it is a little bit a response.

When Tacoma Safe started up, you know, I know, we know, people in the community know, some of the primaries in that group, and know some of their past political activities.

So that made people who I think are a little bit more on the progressive side of the spectrum a little uncomfortable.

But more importantly, the messaging that they seemed to be adopting initially was very much in favor of renewing the camping ban in Tacoma.

You know, for those of you who haven't been following this, the camping ban would make it illegal, against the municipal code, for people to be sleeping or putting an encampment on public sidewalks.

And the ban was in effect in Tacoma and then was sort of put on hiatus because of some legal cases.

And Tacoma Safe had indicated that they really wanted to bring this back.

And that was sort of the seed then for Compassion Tacoma.

Compassion Tacoma was a group of people first talking, and then we got a Facebook group together to say, there's got to be a better approach.

There's got to be something that focuses in on, what do people actually need, people who are unhoused.

What do they need right now to help make their situation better?

And simultaneously, what does our community need?

What does our business community need?

You know, there seemed to be a real conflation of homeless camps and crime.

>> Exactly.

And that's a tough one not to fall into.

Even writing this or discussing it, you're constantly conflating them.

>> Yes.

>> They may not be one-for-one, but they're related.

So how do we deal with that?

>> You know, it's a difficult situation.

I would say -- and, you know, I'm not an expert on this.

But I would say that I think it is unlikely that people who are living unhoused in tents are engaged in a lot of extreme criminal activity.

You know, there might be some criminal activity, but I don't think it is necessarily the sort of organized things that people are concerned about -- stealing catalytic converters.

>> Mobbing stores and those things.

>> Mobbing stores, drive-by shootings, right.

I mean, we have some actually very serious criminal activity going on in Tacoma.

>> Is Tacoma in trouble?

Do you acknowledge that Tacoma is in trouble from a crime perspective?

>> I would say that Tacoma is experiencing what every urban area is experiencing right now.

The impact of basically having two years of disruption of normal life has been extreme in all kinds of ways.

So, for example, after 6 PM -- and, you know, here up in the Northwest, for half of the year, after 6 PM, it is dark.

But previously, you'd have people at restaurants, people going to movies, people maybe going out to bars, doing things socially.

You had more people on the street.

For two years, we have not had people on the street in the evenings.

And I think that is a significant factor in what we're seeing.

We're seeing an absence of normal life.

And into that vacuum, I think we are seeing crime coming back.

Are we worse than other cities?

I don't know that we are.

>> This basic dichotomy between cracking down and law and order, and let's just do cradle-to-grave services, as long as we build them all homes and provide every service, there will be no criminality.

What is the right answer there?

Because, you know, the pushback to you is going to be, yeah, Evelyn, sure, if we do everything, life will be great.

But that's not how it's going to work.

So how do we address that?

>> Well, I think first of all, I mean, we're sort of having the philosophical over a beer discussion, right?

>> Yeah.

>> So over a beer discussion.

>> Sans the beer.

>> Sans the beer.

Tabletop discussion.

What's better, right?

Something that is comprehensive and minimizing the suffering of people, or something else?

>> Law enforcement.

>> Law enforcement.

And something in between is probably the answer, it usually is.

>> So responses to calls for service that don't necessarily come from an understaffed police department but maybe from an ancillary service provider of some kind?

>> I think that would be a really nice experiment.

Because a lot -- and it's really -- I'll say this here.

I mean, I have some real concerns about some of the police incidents in Tacoma.

But I also have a great deal of respect.

You know, I've been in the public sector myself for 30-plus years.

I respect the institution.

There is no reason to send a trained, uniformed officer out to take a report when someone's package is stolen off of their porch.

However, there's real value in collecting that data, so if there's a trend in a particular neighborhood or a particular type of theft that's occurring, there's an opportunity for people to analyze it.

>> Getting big pushback from things like restorative justice.

Which I'm sure you're very familiar with in King County.

The mayors from Renton, Auburn, Kent, Federal Way, they are pushing back.

Are we seeing the pendulum do you think here swing back to more law and order, and let's get them off the streets then solve problems, for both criminals and homeless?

Because again, there I go conflating it again.

But do you see -- do you sense that pushback?

And is the let's do wraparound services argument starting to grow thin?

>> I don't -- I would say both in a way.

I don't think that the argument that what we need is wraparound services or what we need is everyone have a home, everyone to have the opportunity to get the treatment that they need to be healthy.

I don't think that's going to go away.

But it's never happened.

>> Correct, yeah.

>> It's sort of interesting to think that we're thing of abandoning something that we've never done.

We've only talked about it.

>> Right.

Meanwhile.

>> But I do see -- and we saw it this legislative session with some more details being packed into the Police Reform laws.

We do see that people have a great deal of discomfort with these concepts of changing traditional law enforcement.

>> Yeah, a lot of pushback, a lot of pushback on that too.

>> Yeah.

People are very comfortable with the idea of, you know, break the law, go to jail, it's your fault, and you earned it, and that's what you get.

And I think that there is a lot of discussion about, it's deeper than that, and that's too simplistic, and that's just going to continually, you know, you're just putting a bandage on a problem, you're never solving it.

The only way to solve the problem is to go deeper.

But there's never the money to go deeper.

So where are you?

You're, as we always are, in the middle of thinking there's probably a better way, but in the meantime, let's do this.

>> Is defunding the police, is that dead?

Did progressives go too far with that, do you think?

Or no, that still needs to be a thing?

>> I think that the slogan was probably not a great slogan in the end.

Although it was so pithy, and, you know, that's a good punchy slogan, right.

But, in fact, nobody was ever saying -- well, probably some people were.

But really nobody was ever saying, take the money away from the police department, we don't need police.

Maybe some were.

But here's the thing.

Doesn't it sound quite rational for me to say, with all the money we're spending on the police -- and we spend a significant, I mean, a significant portion of the city budget for that -- let's see how we can deploy those resources more intelligently, right.

Let's have other people taking reports for non-serious criminal offenses.

Let's have the officers partnered in their vehicles again.

Let's have fewer cars but more police in them so they can talk and strategize together.

Let's do training that isn't just, here's the rule, follow it, but is, let's talk about what we each bring into the job that we do.

We help bring in biases.

We all bring in assumptions.

You have to talk those through.

And I don't think they take the time.

Maybe they feel they don't have the time.

>> Last 30 seconds.

Do you feel like leadership in Tacoma, the political class in both the county and the city, are listening now?

Do you see the pendulum swinging in a direction you don't want it to?

What's your take on the response?

>> I think that the political groups, the elected officials, are listening.

But I think they are also hoping someone can just give them a nice simple solution.

I literally hear people saying, just tell me how much it's going to cost and we can start planning.

And that hasn't happened yet.

Although the county has a comprehensive plan and it does have money, you know, outlined in it.

So that may be coming.

I think they want to find solutions, but it's such a big problem, that it's very hard to do.

>> Evelyn, thanks for coming to Northwest Now.

>> You're welcome.

>> Here in Tacoma, crime is not an academic debate where if a social experiment fails, everybody can just retreat to their 14th story penthouses or go to their second homes until it all blows over.

The bottom line, in Tacoma, businesses and working people have to make it every day to accomplish their goals.

If this city and the southside in general are ever to fulfill their promise, safe streets are essential to making that happen.

The hardworking folks around here deserve it.

I hope this program got you thinking and talking.

To watch this program again or to share it with others, Northwest Now can be found on the web at KBTC.org.

And be sure to follow us on Twitter at Northwest Now.

Thanks for taking a closer look on this edition of Northwest Now.

Until next time, I'm Tom Layson.

Thanks for watching.

[ Music ]