It's dark and I wear bifocals.

So Grace.

so we're going to get going, and I'd like to have our two candidates for state attorney general, come forward.

and I will introduce them as they're coming up.

We'll start with Nick Brown.

Nick Brown is a Democrat raised in Stillicum.

Did I get close on that?

Got it.

Okay.

Where his first job was working at the local Taco Bell.

Either.

Great job or I'm sorry.

to help with college.

Nick joined the ROTC.

He graduated from Morehouse College, got his law degree from Harvard Law School, and then began his service in the Army as a JAG officer.

He served in Iraq and earned the Bronze Star Medal in 2005.

After his time in the Army, Nick returned home to Washington, where he first worked as a prosecutor and then was appointed as general counsel for, Governor Jay Inslee.

In 2021, President Biden nominated Nick to become the U.S. attorney for Western Washington.

Welcome, Nick Brown.

Thanks.

And to my left is, Pete Serrano, a Republican.

You moved to Washington in 2015, almost 20 years ago, to serve as an environmental lawyer in the U.S. Department of Energy at Hanford.

His work included helping transform over 1500 acres of government land into a thriving solar farm, and working with the D.o.e.

to ensure a safe and effective clean up to the Hanford Site.

He was elected to the Pasco City Council in 2018 and today serves as mayor.

He lives in Pasco with his wife PJ, and their children Sophia, Lillian and Massimo.

In 2021, Pete and PJ founded the Silent Majority Foundation, dedicated to protecting constitutional rights and freedom.

Pete serves as a director and general counselor.

So, Welcome, Pete.

Thank you.

thank you both for being here.

I won't go over the rules of the debate.

You've heard them before, but the candidates have reviewed and agreed to all of them.

Each will be asked alternating questions and timed responses, and each will be given the ability to ask one question of each other.

A reminder these debates are being broadcast live on TV.

Thank you to that great organization.

as for our coin toss, just moments ago, using, by the way, a Expo 74 coin, which I thought was cool.

it has been determined that, Mr. Serrano will go first with opening statements.

So I will hand that to you.

Thank you.

Thank you for being here.

Members of the Association, Washington businesses.

Thanks for being here, Mr. Moderator.

Look forward to hearing you.

Pete Serrano is here to make a change in Washington.

We hear the word crisis, and it feels like it's overused.

But quite frankly, in the state of Washington, it's abundantly and adequately used.

A mental health crisis, housing crisis, an energy crisis, a crime crisis, a lack of the ability to enforce laws, crisis.

But we are not at fault.

It's our current leadership, whether that's the executive is a governor, the legislature or the agencies, that it will be my duty to advise to pull them back to what the square is.

We need to square the mission of the state of Washington with the Constitution of Washington.

It's time for a change and bring back accountability, transparency and integrity to this office.

And Pete Serrano Serrano for ag.com, I'll plug that is here to bring that.

Thank you.

And Mr. Brown your opening soon.

Well thank you, Paul, and thank you to everyone in the Association for Washington Businesses, to the men and women of the Davenport Hotel for hosting us and for TV w for everyone watching at home.

The job of the attorney general is incredibly important for Washington families, for Washington businesses.

And I'm excited about taking on that immense responsibility to be the people's lawyer.

I'm here principally because my parents were both veterans and public servants, and always taught me to give a damn about my community and to do everything that I could to work to improve it.

And all throughout my career, I've worked hard to keep people safe and to use the law as a tool for justice.

That was true when I served in the Army and worked with military families and soldiers defending their rights.

That was true when I was a prosecutor and prosecuted hundreds of cases of drug crimes, violence, crimes, firearm offenses.

That was true when I worked in Olympia.

That was true when I served as the chief federal law enforcement officer for Western Washington.

There are clear contrasts in this race and experience and values and readiness to lead.

And I look forward to having that discussion this afternoon.

Thank you.

Thank you so much.

And, for the coin toss, the first question will go to Mr. Serrano and we'll start with that.

job with that job looks like.

So the AG website was nine roles of the attorney General's office.

I hope that each of you have read that of those which are the most important to you or resonate most to you, which I am just 1 or 2.

Which are the most important to have you?

Thank you for the question.

the most important, the the actual constitutional duty of the Attorney general is to advise the state.

And then it also continues to state that whatever other legislative duties are provided.

Originally, that office was simply an advisory role.

And the attorney general that we're currently seeing has failed.

He's failed by taking on policy positions.

He sought to become a legislator.

He signed on to bills and sponsored them utilize the Consumer Protection Act, which, again, is another key element of the AG's office as a weapon against business, small and large, fundamentally increasing costs and decreasing services to the people of Washington.

The Attorney General's office needs to focus back on what its mission constitutionally is.

Get back to advising those regulatory agencies.

Do not let them run amuck.

Do not let them expand their own powers.

Confine them and constrain them to their actual obligations, liabilities and duties.

That's the first and primary sponsor, spot of the Attorney General's office.

That's where we need to start to peel back those layers of regulatory agency overreach so that individual lives can be protected so that businesses can be protected.

And then the second thing is, while the AG's had some successes with certain consumer protection acts, he's clearly overreached in that area, too.

We need to bring it back home to protecting the people and protecting our businesses.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Brown.

rebuttal.

Well.

Thank you.

The the role of the attorney general is broad.

There are about 800 lawyers serving across the state.

1600 total staff members with immense responsibility to impact our lives.

And the first and foremost obligation is to be the advocate for the people of the state of Washington.

That is why we have our separately elected constitutional officer.

Not every state does it that way.

And so it'll be my obligation to make sure that office is always in tune with how do we improve people's lives, how do we advocate for them using the Consumer Protection Act?

You using the Civil Rights Division, doing everything we can to make sure people's lives are improved, but it is also to advise and defend state government, to make sure that they are acting in the best interests of their client agencies and the people, ultimately.

And that work takes experience.

And I know what it's lead to.

Like to lead a large public law firm, because I've done it when I was the U.S. attorney for Western Washington.

I worked every day to lead a huge office with responsibility for half the state to make sure that we are defending people's rights and interests, and I will bring that experience to bear as the next attorney general.

Thank you.

And you have 30s response.

Thank you.

I'll just simply note some of my business background experience prior to moving here, as you heard, for the Department of Energy as well as in-house counsel to Energy Northwest.

All in the energy and environmental industry.

I actually ran projects, multibillion dollar acquisitions.

multibillion dollar, tunneling or, terminal projects.

I have the experience of leading businesses and working with governments to make sure that they get the right the right question, the right answer before them.

Thank you.

And the second question goes to Mr. Brown.

I saw a quote from former Governor Christine Gregoire, suggesting that the relationship between a governor and an attorney general can actually be challenging.

Do you believe that's true?

Can govern.

Can a governor be tempted to use an AG's office as their own personal attorney?

How do you prevent that?

Well, having worked with countless clients over the last two decades, sometimes clients can be difficult and challenging.

I know what that experience is like.

when I worked in the Army, I had difficult clients.

When I worked for the Department of Justice.

Sometimes working with my client agencies, we wouldn't always wouldn't see eye to eye.

I can assure you, working for Governor Inslee for four and a half years or sometimes he drove me crazy.

But I bring that experience to bear.

And I have also represented some of Washington's best companies in private practice.

I serve as a partner at a law firm for many years, representing Washington homegrown companies, and sometimes they were challenging for me.

And I know that will be the same case working with the next governor, whomever it is.

It'll be my job to advise that person to make sure that they are doing the best that they can to defend Washingtonians and improve people's lives.

But to do that well, you have to have some experience working with executives at that level.

And I know that over the last two decades, I've learned how to do that well.

And I would disagree with part of what Pete said earlier, that AG Ferguson is somehow broken new ground by also doing some policy work.

AG rod McKenna did policy advocacy as well.

AG Christine Gregoire did as well.

And that is important as we work to tackle the very important challenges that all of us are facing individuals, businesses and alike.

And so I have no doubt that there will be times where I will disagree with AG Ferguson as governor or AG or Governor Reichert if he should prevail.

But I will advise them to the best of my abilities and lean hard on my experience and making some of these tough decisions.

Thank you.

And your response?

Yeah.

You know, one of the beauties of our attorney general's office is it is a constitutionally separate office, meaning you'll have the opportunity to go up and down, take it however you please.

that's not the case.

And for example, Alaska, where the attorney general serves at the pleasure of the governor, can only.

I can only imagine what happens when they disagree on critical key points.

Termination of the attorney general.

You find someone else political process.

You have four years of a of a governor and half that time spent trying to find a replacement.

I will say, you know, Nick and I can agree on one thing.

Jay Inslee is driving me crazy.

probably you to give him the response.

That aside, we need an attorney general who's constitutionally sound, who's focused on the rights of the people, who's focused on bringing back advice to the government.

and that's going to, consist of the governor.

you know, I know Rob McKenna and Governor Gregoire had their own spat over some health care issues.

If you recall that.

And, that's that wouldn't be new.

And if we need to do it, that's that's how we approach that issue.

30s to respond.

Well, I think one of the important distinctions and differences between Pete and I in this race is that I know it is the obligation of the attorney general to defend their client agencies, whether that be the governor or any of the state agencies that are operating all across Washington.

In contrast, Pete has said repeatedly that if he personally disagrees with one of his client agencies that he won't defend them, that he will avoid that responsibility, that he will tell them that the taxpayers should pay for rights outside counsel to do that job.

And that's just the fundamental difference between the two of us.

Thank you.

The next question goes to Mr. Serrano.

First, Washington state has been in the news at the forefront of national consumer protection battles in everything from tuna fish to money transfers.

What in your mind is the role of the Attorney General's office in consumer protection?

And how might your philosophy differ from your predecessor if you are elected?

Yeah, I think one of the most important things under the Consumer Protection Act is making sure that the attorney general's actually advising, you know, the agency as well as the business communities.

There's opportunities.

Nick mentioned policy, you know, when it comes to policing.

The attorney general's office was the one who wrote some of the policing policies.

That was by statute, a question that I have for you is, where's Bob Ferguson been to advise you on what your duties, obligations and regulations are?

My guess is it's going to be equally silent.

If I were to actually have a show of hands.

The attorney general needs to make sure that he protects the consumer.

He will protect them from bad actors.

There's no question that we have people.

They come in, they take advantage of of Washingtonians, whether it's, you know, overpriced issues or selling bad goods.

There's no question that there's an absolute role and enforcement role, a legal role, a litigation role under those circumstances.

But we've also seen the attorney general that's been caught, you know, with some back door deals advising the UTC and PSC on some of the natural gas issues.

Why was any more vocal about protecting the consumer there?

Was it because the headline wasn't as good as getting chicken and tuna checks?

I don't know.

I'm not Bob Ferguson.

Maybe that's a question to ask tonight, but the difference here is I will be looking out for the consumer, but I will do so in a way that I advise the agencies to make sure that your all businesses can continue in Washington.

Mr. Brown, I'm going to try to keep track today, but how many times Pete mentions Bob Ferguson, you're not running against Bob Ferguson, you're running against me.

And we should focus on the differences between you and I and the experience that we bring to bear.

But I fundamentally believe that the Consumer Protection Act is one of the most important tools that we can use in the attorney General's office to advocate for people to make sure they're not being misled, to make sure that their rights are being defended.

And that helps individual Washingtonians.

But it also helps the business community.

When we're using the Consumer Protection Act to stop a company that's having bad or illegal and improper business activities that prevents them from having an unfair, unfair advantage against their competitors.

And I want to bring that that wide mindset to the work of the Consumer Protection Act, because it is important to deal with some of the really important challenges that Washingtonians, individuals and businesses alike are facing across this state.

We have shown the Consumer Protection Act is a very important tool to reduce pricing to cost of living in Washington, and we have a real important challenges, and I'll be excited to use that aggressively as the next attorney general in 30s.

Thank you, I appreciate that.

I'll just counter back.

The only reason I raised Bob Ferguson is next, that he's got a great legacy to uphold.

I clearly don't agree with that statement.

I'll let Nick hold that to account.

His accountability.

Okay.

We can reset the clock there.

Maybe not.

We won't reset the clock.

We'll move on.

So we've touched on this already a little bit, but I'd like to focus a question on it.

And this will go to you first.

organizations and agencies can always do better.

What needs to change at the AG's office under new leadership?

Well, I think there's a lot of good work that's happened in the AG's office over the last 12 years and indeed by many of the predecessors as well.

There are things in the last 12 years that I'm proud of as a Washingtonian.

They created a civil rights division that didn't exist 12 years ago.

They created an Environmental Enforcement Protection Division to help keep our environment safe and healthy for the next generations.

But I'm a different person than the current attorney general.

Most of my background is around criminal justice issues, leading big, complex investigations, working directly with law enforcement agencies that are federal and local level, working with community groups, all getting to how do we keep people safer.

And I'm going to lean into that work as a next attorney general, because I do believe we have important public safety challenges right now.

We have a fentanyl crisis that's decimating our communities and particularly our youth.

We have gun violence that is not only be used to commit crimes, but suicides.

There's really important things that I think the AG's office can lean into and do better.

And I'm always going to keep a mindset of how do we solve people's problems.

You know, obviously, litigation is some of the most important tools that we have as litigators, and that's true for the attorney General's office as well.

But my end goal is not just to sue people, not just to litigate, but to improve people's lives, and that sometimes that might be litigation, sometimes that might be a phone call to a business or to an individual.

Sometimes that might just be getting people together to collaborate, to problem solve.

And I'm going to bring that problem solving culture not only to my work, but to everyone in the attorney General's office.

Focus on how do we improve people's lives and how do we get this job done and have results for everyone.

Mr. Serrano, thank you.

as I mentioned, I spent about 12 years in environmental and energy policy and litigation.

That experience is absolutely needed to protect Washingtonians, to protect our business, to protect our ways of life.

We can't lose natural gas.

We can't use other successful production energy production resources, like in Pasco, where we have the snake River dams that are on the hook.

We cannot lose these generation sources that also provide for in in the case of the snake River dams, waterways that take trucks off the road that give us opportunity for flood control, that feed our families.

The attorney general that has the the attorney general's candidate has experience with environmental litigation and energy litigation is me, and I look forward to helping solve that.

Obviously, public safety has to be at the forefront.

Working with the U.S. Attorney's office to make sure we get those convictions and prosecuting those crimes.

Thank you.

And 30s.

No, absolutely.

I agree with Pete.

I think the energy challenges that we're facing as a state are vitally important for all of you, for personal consumers as well.

I think the question was about differences with with AG Ferguson and things that we would do differently.

But the space that I really want to lean into is around public safety issues.

And I've led literally hundreds of cases, prosecuted hundreds of cases in the military and for the Department of Justice.

It is something that Pete has not simply done a little bit.

He's just never done that work.

And I'm going to bring that experience to bear.

Thank you.

A primary task of the Attorney General's office is to defend the state laws.

But the office also mentioned its responsibility to proposal legislation.

Do you plan to be aggressive about that latter?

And it's coming here.

Yeah.

Okay.

Thank you.

Not a problem.

as to the proposing legislation, I really don't intend to get involved in that space.

I really believe that that's the legislature's job.

They're independently elected.

You know, you have an executive in the governor who, if he so chooses, can do the same.

But my goal is not to legislate from the bench, either utilizing the courts as a political animal or to legislate from that office.

The job of the attorney general is to advise and defend and defend the agencies of Washington.

We need to get that good advice squarely in there, and that will be my primary focus.

When it comes to legal analysis, when it comes to providing that information.

as to whether or not I'm going to defend laws I disagree with.

I've talked about this several times.

I look forward to taking those who agree with me and those who disagree with me, and advising the legislature comprehensively.

If you pass this bill, it violates constitutional rights.

Or maybe we come to square answers that it doesn't.

And then we're sitting there handling that business.

But I do not intend to use the AG's office to propose new legislation.

Of course, if I need a budgetary request or some sort of tool, something to advance the cause of the attorney General's office, that's my intent.

But I don't intend to expand it to.

I task force to, other issues that we've seen that are outgrowth of legislation that, quite frankly, don't belong in the attorney General's office.

Mr.. Brown 60s.

I just couldn't disagree with that more.

I think it's a fundamental missed opportunity to help improve this state.

As I said, generations of attorney generals have proposed legislation, and it's a proposal.

It still has to go through the legislative process.

It still has to have a legislative sponsor.

But there is so much knowledge and wisdom and expertise in the men and women that work for the attorney General's office.

And if we see a challenge that we are in tune with, I see no reason not to propose new ideas to the legislature and then have that debate with the legislative members and stakeholders alike.

I'm particularly thinking about the housing crisis that we're facing across the state.

I think there's new opportunities for the AG to weigh into those problems, to make sure that we're getting more housing that's affordable and accessible for everyone here, and it's easier to build and develop housing because this is a crisis.

And again, our job is to defend those state laws.

Pete has said he won't do that if he disagrees.

Imagine hiring a lawyer to represent you.

And then when you have a disagreement, they tell you to hire somebody else.

That is what Pete is proposing as the next attorney general.

And that's just an abdication of the responsibilities of the attorney general.

Thank you.

Abortion, of course, is a big and emotional issue across this country.

What role?

I don't know.

Oh.

I'm sorry.

That's okay.

Yeah.

Go ahead.

just in the quick 32nd rebuttal, I want to be clear.

I've said when the Constitution disagrees with legislation, I can't ethically defend it.

When you read the oath of a lawyer, it's to the US Constitution here in Washington.

When you read the oath of the attorney General, it is to the US Constitution, the Washington State Constitution, and to the laws of the of Washington.

We should not be superseding or subverting either Constitution with legislation.

And that's the advice I intend to give the legislature.

Thank you.

Thanks for checking on me.

Keep it straight.

What's that?

We'll keep you straight.

Okay?

Thank you.

Abortion, of course, is a big emotional issue across the country.

What role should and will you play in protecting abortion rights in the state of Washington, or seeking a more of a federal solution to the issue?

And we'll start with you.

Well, absolutely.

I think abortion, reproductive care, health care in general is one of the most important issues that is going to be on the ballot here in Washington and nationally.

And I think men and women are rightly concerned of what we've seen about the reduction in abortion services in America following the Supreme Court's decision in Dobbs.

We've seen over two dozen states now post new laws restricting abortion access in their states, and that's having an impact here in Washington.

I am incredibly proud of Washington having some of the most progressive and defensive abortion statutes in America to make sure that if a woman needs an abortion here in Washington, she has the ability to do that because she's entitled to that health care opportunity.

But I don't want to just rest and get complacent because we are seeing national threats to the right to abortion.

Obviously, following Dobbs, we've seen a vacillation of opinion about abortion here in Washington, and we're seeing the impacts of some of these changes in other states where we've seen health care providers and hospitals throughout our states have their services increased because other states around us have a decreased abortion access.

I will be a staunch defender of abortion access and rights here in Washington.

I do not think Pete can stay the same, and I will continue to work with the legislature to see if there's new opportunities to have more protections, because I believe this is one of our fundamental responsibilities, that abortion should be a right in Washington, and we should not simply rest on where we've been at a state, but think about how we can provide greater protections for people.

The great news is I'm here to tell you what I think.

So regardless of what it thinks, I think it's irrelevant.

In 1970.

The people spoke.

They decided they wanted to decriminalize abortion.

In 1991, the legislature passed legislation to protect it even further.

That issue has not been on the ballot since that time.

It's not my job to subvert the people's rights.

I anticipate that we'll have conversation later about initiatives that are proposed that have been passed.

I support the people's rights to speak.

Washington's Constitution is one of the most protective and pristine constitutions gives us the right to recall referendum, an initiative that is how the people speak to their government and make sure they're doing what they're asking them to do.

At this point, there's no way that the attorney general can subvert the people's voice by changing the initiative laws.

That's to the legislature.

Thank you.

And 30s.

I'll just say it would be nice if that was the end of the analysis.

But we're seeing threats today, and I want to give AG Ferguson and his office credit for suing the Biden administration.

And two years ago to ensure that abortion medication was going to be available for Washington women.

That was an aggressive action taken against another Democratic administration to make sure people would not be their rights, would not be affected by some of the changes that we're seeing on a national level.

When Pete was asked whether he would have done the same thing, he said, I haven't really thought about that yet, and that's not the leadership that we need in Washington to protect this fundamental right.

Thank you.

So we've reached that point where each candidate will have a chance to ask their opponent a question.

You have 30s to ask that question and 90s respond.

And of course, we have a rebuttal process in place.

And we'll start with you.

Great.

Nick, one of the things that you've said in an NPR, affiliate was, can when you were the chief legal enforcement officer of the Western District of Washington, is that when you looked at sentencing, sentencing, what your team that you would use the least amount of sentencing available?

You've mentioned our fentanyl crisis, our high crime that's rising and whether or not you like it.

Bob Ferguson's done very little.

How can you move away from that position?

Well, I'm really glad that you've asked that question because it demonstrates, once again, your total lack of experience around public safety and criminal justice issues.

And you also misquoted me.

What I said there is that as a leader, as a prosecutor, we should be advocating for the lowest possible sentence necessary to keep people safe.

And if anybody thinks that we should advocate for more than is necessary, then I just have a fundamental disagreement with you.

But that is built upon years and years and hundreds of cases of working with law enforcement to keep the community safe.

To arguing in front of a court about how we keep us safe from doing countless jury trials, which I'm not sure that you've ever done, to make sure that we're advocating for people to working with victims of crimes.

I know what it's like to be in a courtroom, to having worked with a victim of a sexual assault, having worked with a victim who's a child and advocating for their rights and holding somebody accountable in a trial.

And when I go and ask for a sentence or what I would advise my team to ask for a sentence, we would talk about what is necessary to hold this person accountable.

What is necessary to reduce the likelihood that they'll do that again?

What is necessary to protect the public?

And then we go in and ask an advocate to the judge for what is necessary.

I just wanted to make sure that we weren't going in there just to drop the hammer on people just because we could.

And we had this immense power as government prosecutors.

Let's find a solution that what we think is necessary to have all those important aspects of accountability.

And then we'll move forward.

Thank you.

You have 60s to rebut.

Sure.

Unfortunately, it's clear that that process hasn't worked.

We've watched crime rates increase throughout Washington, especially up in Seattle and Western District of Washingt We've seen thousands of people die of fentanyl overdose, and that's increased over the past two years.

It didn't work then, and it won't work now or in the future.

We need to make sure that we put public safety and tough on crime.

At the heart of this office in a final 30s.

Sure.

Again, we can have these nice touch phrases, tough on crime, etc.

but unless you've done the work, you really have no concept of what that means.

I want to be smart on crime.

I want to listen to my clients.

I want to work with the victims.

I want to get the input of law enforcement to figure out what the right solution is.

And that's been built on decades and decades of experience.

And I know what's going to be right.

And I'm going to bring that experience to the attorney General's office to make sure that we can do more as a state ag to keep people safe.

And your question for Mr. Serrano.

So in November, we're going to have a very important election, and in January, that person is going to take office.

But we saw what happened last time.

We put in a new president on January 6th, where we saw hundreds and thousands of people attack the Capitol, damage the government process or harm themselves, and hurt law enforcement officers and try to interrupt the path of democracy, despite what we saw with their own eyes.

Pete, you've referred to those people as political prisoners.

How can we trust you to uphold the rule of law if you're not going to uphold the rule of law when we see it?

Related.

Yeah.

In specific, reference to that context, when I was asked about what I see happening with January 6th prisoners, it's very clear to me that that was a political process.

In Benton County, we had five violent, violent offenders who were let out because they didn't have access to counsel within five days, five days.

These individuals are out on our streets, and one has actually left in the state of Oregon, where he was picked up.

This is based on an Oregon district court, a federal level low trial court rule.

When you look at the individuals who have been housed in prisons for years without right and access to counsel, it doesn't matter whether they did that or whether they.

We've seen this happen with Guantanamo Bay.

We've had prisoners who've had access to counsel at a much more expedited rate.

The issue with those individuals is they were held in cells without counsel.

That is a fundamental right that the government should be protecting.

Arguably, it's mandated to protect.

Yet the government absolutely failed those individuals.

And so, yeah, when I said they were political prisoners, that's what I meant.

They were individuals held on political charges and fundamentally lost their rights without ever having access to them.

In 60s.

Sure.

I just don't know how assaulting a law enforcement officer is a political charge.

Interrupting the path of democracy is a political charge.

Damaging federal government property is a political charge.

And there were over 800 individuals that were charged with some very serious offenses.

And when you're asked about that to refer to that group, not five people who didn't get a lawyer as quickly as enough, according to you, and to refer to that group as political prisoners, you're having such a negative impact on all of us because words as leaders matter.

And if I'm going to be the next attorney general, I want to make sure that I'm using my words carefully and thoughtfully and not diving into these, you know, deep MAGA conspiracy theories about political prisoners and the like.

Having worked with the Department of Justice very many years, having worked with the US attorney in Washington, DC, and to know how seriously he and his team took that process, I cannot accept that you're simply going to castigate their work as political, because I know the thoughtfulness that went into it in the final 30s.

Yeah, I find it interesting that you mention it as a high note destruction to to property of the government.

You've said nothing about the mosque in U-dub, the destruction of their campuses, the fact that they're retaliating and targeting Jewish students, that they're willing to to stop a Regents meeting.

You know, as the mayor of Pasco, I passed, I was advocating for a pro-Israel statement, and we had an Israel American, month of heritage celebration.

Thank you.

thank you both for those questions.

The next question is, local government is often on the front lines of managing our state's homelessness crisis.

while their ability to pass and enforce laws to ban camping has been clarified in Grants Pass versus Johnson, questions about other laws that often impact people experiencing homelessness continue to swirl, and additional legal challenges loom.

As attorney general, how would you use your office to address homelessness and provide certainty to local governments?

Thank you.

as the mayor of Pasco, this has been something we've wrestled with for the past several years.

You know, we were starting to see an uptick in homeless citizens that were disruptive.

So I'll tell you what I've done as the mayor, and then we'll extrapolate that to what I can do as attorney general.

We made sure that when there were certain places where they congregated, we've modified traffic patterns.

We've changed it such that they're not inviting to sit with the passage of Grants Pass and, the Boise case, the Martin case, the city is now free to do what the city needs to do to protect our residents and our businesses.

But largely between legislation and these court cases, we were hamstrung.

Downtown Pasco became less desirable, and today it's more desirable.

It's thriving, got new businesses that want to come in, that want to expand their footprint.

It's a it's a great time to be in Pasco because we have tools at our fingertips that were taken from us largely.

So flip that to Attorney General.

The opportunity to work on these these litigation matters, whether it is submitting an amicus brief to a case that comes out of Idaho or Oregon, or whether or not it's advising local jurisdictions on on what these cases mean.

through some of the attorney general opinions, our legislatures, those are great tools to give people a path forward.

And I look forward to using those.

Thank you, Mr. Brown.

Well, I think the issue of housing and homelessness is actually one of the most important the state is facing over the next many years.

And it's been a surprise for me as I travel across the state as a candidate, how often this issue comes up, concerns about housing.

And I know that's true here on the east side in Spokane, and it's true in small towns as well that are seeing their residents living on the street, and it's having a detrimental impact.

And I think all levels of government, state and local, should be really focused on how do we eliminate this problem or reduce the harm that's being caused.

For me, that starts with increasing more housing to make housing easier to build, more accessible, more affordable.

All across that state, there's a clear correlation between increase in housing and reduce in homelessness.

We also need to make sure that we're holding people accountable if they're causing harm to others in their community.

And so when we see some of the public harm results, we should support local law enforcement in the community to make sure that those folks are being held accountable.

But we also need to get to some of the very root cause problems that that keeps people in homelessness situations, mental health challenges, drug addiction and the like.

And those are areas where the AG can do really important work.

Thank you.

Thank you.

we saw Attorney General Ferguson's office that had an opioid settlement.

I think there's a lot that we can do to explore moneys, those monies.

For example, again, I'll talk back about my time on city council.

I'm currently mayor of Pasco.

When we saw that money, we looked at making sure we had tools in place.

We invested those in recovery centers and, you know, God willing, in the next year ground's going to be broken and hopefully finished.

You know, to put more opportunity for recovery and treatment for addiction.

So there's a lot of opportunity for the AG to bring back money.

Thank you.

Next question on other state versus federal conflicts especially, and differences on the environment and human resource type questions.

Where's the balance for you in states rights versus national consistency?

That's key.

Well, my first obligation as the Washington state attorney general will be defend Washington interest.

And that is the analysis that I will bring to every single law, litigation policy matter.

Is this impacting Washingtonians?

Is there a way that we can help defend Washingtonians rights, and are we the best entity to do that?

It would be nice if, but what state of Washington was always in alignment with the national government or other states?

And there are ways that we can solve those problems when they're not.

Sometimes it might be through litigation, sometimes it might just be through having a conversation or working together on a policy issue.

But my first and foremost obligation as the lawyer for the people of the state of Washington and for the entire state government will be defend Washington rights.

And I do think there's real opportunity to make progress on some of these really important challenges, some of which we've talked about already, but we're going to see new challenges that come, whether we have a President Harris or a second Trump presidency.

There are going to be times when the federal government does things that we don't like as a state.

And I will always stand up and defend Washington, no matter who's in DC, no matter who's in other governor's office, to make sure that we're bringing Washington's best interests forward and to advocate on their behalf.

Thank you sir.

Yeah.

Thank you.

certainly my years of experience in the environmental field have shown me the various pathways to solving issues, whether it's with your local government, your state appointed government, or your federal government.

there are opportunities for the attorney general to sign on to letters.

This is pre litigation, quasi enforcement opportunities or, you know, pre litigation.

Heads up of if you don't fix this federal government or other state we can sue you.

Obviously as Nick said I believe that litigation is the last tool.

It should come out in the tool belt of the Attorney General's office.

It should come out when it's necessary.

but there's a lot of opportunity to work with federal agencies to roll back policies.

obviously, if you're talking about legislation from the US Senate or US, Congress is going to be a little bit different.

And so.

I look I look forward to the opportunity of advocating on your behalf, whether it's the to the federal government or the state government.

Thank you.

In 30s.

Yeah.

One additional thing I'd like to add is I do think there's real opportunity for the Attorney General's office to be a better collaborator with other states.

You know, some of the challenges that are we're facing here, some are unique to Washington.

Some are big national issues.

You know, this is certainly true of the opioid crisis that we've seen over the last many years.

And we've seen the powerful impact when states band together to take on powerful interests.

And I can see that same impact as we're battling or challenging laws that are coming from Washington DC.

So the opportunity to collaborate with other states is going to be part of our philo I have a question for each of you individually.

Mr. Serrano, in addition to working as an environmental lawyer, you helped found and serve as general counsel of the Silent Majority Foundation, which advocates for gun rights and individual freedoms.

What role should the AG's office play in that long time political issue?

I don't think the attorney general should be playing in that issue.

The attorney General's office, its role is to advise the legislature.

And as I mentioned, I look at the opportunity to come together with, members of my office, folks that agree with my read to the Constitution, folks that disagree, and folks that are somewhere in the middle.

We take that.

We develop guidance documents.

We advise the legislature when it comes to agencies.

We can easily advise them, but we advise the legislature that this based on not only our read of the Constitution, but the lay of the land within the state Supreme court, within the US Supreme Court.

These are not defensible.

These are unconstitutional laws.

So the AG's office is there to advise that and to make sure that the policy shaped by the legislature or administrative agencies is fundamentally and constitutionally sound.

my work with the Silent Majority Foundation, I am grateful for that opportunity.

I get to stand for each one of you.

Every time I go to court, I get to stand for your rights.

I get to stand for your right to speak, to be free from discrimination, from your state government, from your federal government, or your neighbors.

That's what I do on a daily basis.

And that'll be a refreshing breath of fresh air in the Attorney General's office.

Thank you.

And your response?

Firearm violence in Washington is one of the most pressing problems that we have.

Both firearm crimes and suicide deaths, which is actually the leading cause of firearm violence in America and in Washington.

And the idea that we wouldn't play in that area is shocking to me that we wouldn't do everything we could as an attorney general to help lead and increase public safety around firearm violence.

I think it's disqualifying, and this is one of the areas where Pete and I have strong disagreements.

Repeatedly, he has not stood for the people, but he stood against safety.

He stood for more guns, bigger magazines in our communities.

He's also stood for not regulating ghost guns, which are guns that are homemade, that don't have serial numbers that law enforcement is almost universally against.

Pete has fought against that.

Time and time again, he's taken very extreme positions, and we've shown that our gun safety measures in Washington can save lives.

We successfully reduce suicides per capita because of our gun safety measures like extreme risk protection order, safe storage requirements that impacts all of us.

Thank you.

And 30s Ruba.

Yeah.

To be clear, when I said we don't play in that area, I follow it up with.

We're not there to legislate, but where to give sound fundamental constitutional advice.

This isn't a matter for play.

This and I understand the question was was a question.

This isn't a matter for play.

It's it's a question for seriousness.

We absolutely need to weigh safety versus your constitutional rights.

And the Constitution needs to lead at the forefront, and the safety needs to go hand in hand with that.

There's no question there.

Thank you.

And a question directed to you, Mr. Brown.

I've read, and please correct me if I'm wrong on this.

I've read that you hope to create a new labor and worker protection division that might protect union workers.

how do you see that as a role of the AG's office?

Well, it gets back to the fundamental role of the attorney general, which is to be an advocate for the people.

And we've seen time and time again where workers in Washington and I think we have some of the best workers and workforces and companies in the country.

But I want to make sure that we're doing everything to address some of the serious challenges that they're facing around wage theft, where people are being paid, what they're entitled to under our Washington laws, around worker safety conditions, where we've seen violations not get addressed and held responsibly.

Some of that work is happening now in the attorney General's office, where they've brought good cases to make sure that employers are treating the workers well, that workers understand their rights, and that they have a way to get those rights addressed and adjudicated.

But I love the idea of creating a new division within the attorney General's office, consolidating some of those existing resources to continue to advance this.

I think we all would agree we want workers to be paid what they're entitled to.

I think we would all agree that we want workers to have safe working conditions.

I think one of the ways, having led a large public law firm before, is to bring new ideas to the to the forefront.

And so I see a problem here, not just union workers, all workers that we want to be advocating to protect them.

And so I think there's a new opportunity, an attorney general's office to do that.

But I'm not going to just rely on my own expertise.

I'm not going to just rely on the workers are telling me.

I will always have an open door to the business community as well, to understand the challenges that you're facing, to make sure that we have the best information possible to create a new division, and to do the right kind of advocacy on behalf of everyone here in the state.

Thank you, Mr. Serrano.

Yeah, it's going to be important for the attorney general to work both with the industry and the labor pool.

There's no question that we have issues in our labor force.

some of it's lack of training, some of it's lack of safety standards.

You know, having spent three years in the nuclear industry, I can tell you those are some of the most onerous regulations.

They didn't always provide a safe worker environment because guess what?

We're humans.

We make mistakes.

We get tired, we come into work.

You know, whatever the case is, what the attorney general needs to spend the time to really analyze, with assistance from from industry and from labor, whether or not there's an opportunity to assist.

Quite frankly, those are more legislative fixes.

I don't know that they really belong in the AG's office.

Those seem to be the more the purview of the legislature and the lobbying opportunity to go there.

the attorney general will have the opportunity to advise on those issues.

But again, I see that as more of a legislative fix.

Thank you.

And 30s.

Sure.

I just would reiterate, I think this is an immensely important opportunity to continue to represent people, to defend their rights, and to make this a better place to work for everyone.

Having a better and safer and happier workforce helps all the businesses in this state.

As well.

And I don't want to ignore some of the tools that we have and the Attorney General's office.

Some of those tools are policy ideas, working directly with the legislature to advocate.

But I am excited about the opportunity to have a new division that's bringing more time and attention to this work.

Thank you.

I know this is probably a little bit of a curveball, but I asked this question in every debate I moderate.

I want you to use your time to please say something nice about your opponent starting there.

Oh, who's going first?

Oh, the one I don't care, you know.

So last week I think it was Wednesday.

And Nick and I met in Olympia and I saw him bring his daughter and I could see the care and concern he had for her.

I saw the two kids also, and the, the commercial, the Olympics won, and I saw the interaction he had with that.

I can only imagine that he cares immensely about his kids the same way that I care about my children.

you know, so I'm.

I'm grateful to have a man that's that's stepping up to be a father and being a father.

Okay.

You know, this is a unique race, and I don't know if everyone knows this.

not only in our opponents in this election.

we're also opponents in court.

We have a trial with each other right now.

You know, and it's it's it's somewhat interesting to be in that experience.

you know, that trial involved something very serious where he's advocating to repeal a gun safety measure, and I'm advocating to defend it.

but we've had an opportunity to get to know each other in various contexts.

and what I will say is, I think Pete's heart is in the right place.

I have so much respect and admiration, as you said in your introduction, for people who put their heart out there.

You know, we don't do it for the money.

Certainly.

it comes at a great personal cost to our families and an opportunity to be with them.

You know, I was here yesterday at the reception with everyone, and I was missing my son's, Cub Scout rocket launch.

and I've got videos of it happening and, you know, and I was a little bit sad, frankly, to not be there.

but I understand how important this work is, but.

So I have tremendous respect for Pete.

and I do think his heart is in the right place.

We obviously have big, big, big disagreements about the direction of this state and the work that it needs to happen next.

But I do think he wants to improve Washington, that he wants to make this a better place.

And so I give him credit for that.

Thank you both.

Any rebuttal is necessary.

I don't think we're going to have time for another full question.

So I think I'd like to just move to, closing statements.

And by the coin toss, Mr. Serrano both opened and will close for.

So, your closing comments.

thanks again for taking this time.

You know, your sacred lunch hour.

You could have been networking.

You could have been taking your business calls.

You could have been doing whatever other than listing the two of us while the three of us.

But you're here with us.

I appreciate your time and attention because this is a critical race.

as we've seen, the attorney general, has the ability to affect so much of our lives with the advice that it gives to the agencies and the legislation and how it fans cases and the opportunity for each one of us to benefit from a strong protector of our resources, our environments and our future.

I look forward to serving you as your Attorney General.

I look forward to making sure that every day when I had to Olympia or Seattle, or whether it's down in Pullman or up in Bellevue or, Bellingham or down in Clark County or even Kennewick, across the river, any of those 13 offices.

When I walk in, I want those individuals to know that we stand for the people of Washington, and that's our core value.

We are focused on you.

We are focused on transparency and bringing that level of ethical attitude and approach to our work.

That's what you'll get with Pete Serrano as an attorney general.

I am here to continually stand for you and do so in the most transparent manner that I can.

So you know what's happening and you know how you're being protected again.

Pete Serrano Serrano for Ag.com.

Thanks.

Thank you so much.

In your closing statements, Mr. Brown.

Well, thank you, Paul, and thank you, everyone.

And thank you to the Association of Washington Businesses and reiterate, thanks to Pete for stepping up and taking this plunge to run for office.

You know, as someone who grew up in Washington, it is somewhat humbling to stand before an audience and advocate for myself to be the lawyer of the people of the state of Washington.

but I do so with great humility and excitement about the path.

And I think Washington is a tremendous state.

I am so proud to call Washington home to raise my children here, and I'm excited about what we can do next, despite all of the big challenges that we have.

I think the question for voters this November is you're hiring someone to be the lawyer of the people of the state of Washington.

And does that person have the right legal background, leadership experience and values to move this state forward?

I've had a broad legal career serving on both sides of the aisle as a criminal lawyer, doing complex civil litigation for some of Washington companies, working as general counsel to the governor, where I help tackle some big, complex law and policy issues, serving as the United States Attorney appointed by the president to lead a large public law firm.

I know what it takes to lead the Attorney General's office.

I can do that job.

I'm immensely and uniquely, I think, qualified to take on this responsibility at the voters.

Entrust me with it.

So I really appreciate the time and opportunity to have this discussion.

Pete and I have a debate tomorrow, and so we'll continue this as well.

But thank you so much for investing your time and energy and thoughtfulness to this debate and this whole conference, and I hope you will support me in the election in November.

Thank you.

Thank you so much.

And I want to thank both of you for, really some insightful answers to questions and for stepping up again and for being here today to talk to Washington state's employers.

let's give a big round of applau