>> THIS WEEK ON TO THE CONTRARY, FIRST, ARE ABORTION RIGHTS, GAY RIGHTS AND AFFIRMATIVE ACTION GONE-RS AS JUSTICE ANTHONY KENNEDY EXITS THE SUPREME COURT.

THEN, WHAT DOES ALEXANDRIA OCASIO CORTEZ'S WIN, A PROGRESSIVE WOMAN AGAINST AN ESTABLISHMENT MALE DEMOCRAT, PORTEND FOR THE MIDTERMS?

AND, JEMELE HILL ON HER TWITTER BATTLE WITH PRESIDENT TRUMP.

♪ >> BONNIE: HELLO, I'M BONNIE ERBE.

WELCOME TO TO THE CONTRARY, A DISCUSSION OF NEWS AND SOCIAL TRENDS FROM DIVERSE PERSPECTIVES.

UP FIRST, CHANGE ON THE WAY FOR THE SUPREME COURT.

RIGHT NOW IT'S A GUESSING GAME AS TO WHO WILL REPLACE JUSTICE ANTHONY KENNEDY ON THE BENCH.

BUT COURT WATCHERS SAY FOR HIS SECOND SUPREME COURT PICK, PRESIDENT TRUMP WILL NOMINATE A SERIOUSLY CONSERVATIVE JURIST AND MOVE THE COURT FARTHER RIGHT.

KENNEDY, WHO WAS NOMINATED BY RONALD REAGAN MAINLY VOTED WITH CONSERVATIVES ON ISSUES SUCH AS GUN CONTROL, VOTING RIGHTS AND CAMPAIGN FINANCE.

HE WAS THE "SWING" VOTE IN THE LANDMARK SAME SEX-MARRIAGE DECISION AND CASES INVOLVING ABORTION ACCESS AND AFFIRMATIVE ACTION.

SENATE MAJORITY LEADER MITCH MCCONNELL SAYS HE WANTS THE SENATE TO VOTE ON THE TRUMP NOMINEE BEFORE THE MIDTERMS.

BUT DEMOCRATS WANT IT DELAYED UNTIL AFTER NOVEMBER SINCE MCCONNELL REFUSED TO ALLOW A VOTE ON PRESIDENT OBAMA'S NOMINEE FOR MORE THAN A YEAR SO IF A CONSERVATIVE PRESIDENT WERE ELECTED, HE COULD NOMINATE A CONSERVATIVE JURIST.

>> SO LATIFA, WHAT DOES THIS MEAN FOR THE FUTURE OF WOMEN'S RIGHTS, GAY-RIGHTS, AND AFFIRMATIVE ACTION?

IN OTHER WORDS, ALL CIVIL RIGHTS?

>> IT MEANS THE MOST SERIOUS THREAT THAT WE'VE SEEN TO ALL OF THOSE RIGHTS THAT YOU MENTIONED IN A VERY LONG TIME.

>> AND WOMEN'S RIGHTS NOT AS BAD.

GAY-RIGHTS NOT AS BAD.

AFFIRMATIVE ACTION, YEAH, I THINK MAY BE GONE.

>> SAY GOOD BUY TO ALL THOSE RIGHTS AND WELCOME TO THE HANDMAIDEN'S TAIL.

>> WE'RE GOING TO SEE STATES BEING MORE IN CONTROL THAN SCOTUS IN FUTURE POLICY.

>> YEAH, BUT THAT THROUGH OUT THE STATES THAT MEANS RED STATES WILL BAN ALL THOSE RIGHTS AND THE BLUE STATES WILL KEEP SOME IF NOT ALL OF THEM.

>> RIGHT.

BUT WHEN WE START WITH WOMEN'S RIGHTS AND START WITH POLICY LIKE ROE VS. WADE WE'RE NOT GOING TO SEE IT OVERTURNED TOMORROW BUT STATE LEVEL TO RESTRICT AND LIMIT ACCESS FOR WOMEN IN CERTAIN CASES WHICH IS ALREADY GOING ON IN A NUMBER OF RED STATES.

>> DO YOU AGREE WITH THAT?

>> I REALLY AM ANTICIPATING THE WORSE.

I THINK IT IS INSANE THAT IN THE YEAR 2018, THE WOMEN'S RIGHTS MOVEMENT IN AMERICA IS REALLY HELD HOSTAGE TO THIS ISSUE AND I THINK WITH THIS OPENING RIGHT NOW IN THE SUPREME COURT IT IS JUST GOING TO SET ENTIRE WOMEN'S MOVEMENT BACK AND THAT AFFECTS WOMEN'S MOVEMENTS AROUND THE WORLD.

WHAT HAPPENS IN AMERICA MATTERS.

>> I THINK THAT YOU'RE GOING TO BE SURPRISED AND I THINK HE'S GOING TO APPOINT A WOMAN AND I THINK COLLINS AND ROWCOWSKY SOMEBODY THAT RESPECTS PRECEDENT AND ROE IS NOT GOING TO BE GONE AND GAY-RIGHTS NOT ADVERSELY AFFECTED.

>> DEMOCRATS HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO HOLD THIS UP AS LONG AS POSSIBLE.

>> BUT THEY CAN'T.

I MEAN, THEY -- THE SENATE ALREADY GONE TO THE NUCLEAR OPTIONS SO THEY CANNOT FILIBUSTER ANY MORE.

I MEAN, THERE IS REALLY -- THEY HAVE NO POWER.

THE ONLY POWER THEY HAVE IS HOPING THAT THE THREE SO-CALLED MODERATE REPUBLICANS SENATORS SIDE WITH THEM.

>> RIGHT.

WHICH IS POSSIBLE AND WE KNOW THAT THEY HAVE COME OUT BEFORE, McCOWSK.

IF YOU MENTIONED BUT THERE ARE CERTAIN ADVANCES THAT WE HAVE MADE, PARTICULARLY AROUND GAY MARRIAGE.

I WOULD POINT THAT OUT SOMETHING THAT WAS ONE OF THE MOST SIGNIFICANT CHANGES IN THE PAST DECADE AND AGREEING THAT AT THE STATE LEVEL THIS IS REALLY OPENING THE FLOOD GATES AND THERE ARE A LOST FOLKS WHO ARE FRANKLY JUST SCARED ABOUT HOW THEY'RE GOING TO LIVE THEIR LIVES FRANKLY IN LIGHT OF THIS VACANCY.

>> VERY INTERESTING PIECE IN THE NEW YORK TIMES SAYING, BY A WOMAN WHO STUDIED ABORTION RIGHTS IN CENTRAL AND SOUTH AMERICA I THINK MAYBE GLOBALLY SAYING THAT BECAUSE OF OUR U 486 AND MR.

POSTAL AND, YOU KNOW, THE MORNING-AFTER PILL AND ET CETERA, PLAN B ABORTION RIGHTS ARE REALLY NOT THAT MUCH IN QUESTION ANY MORE AROUND THE THE WORLD.

BECAUSE EVEN IF, FOR EXAMPLE, THOSE DRUGS WERE BANNED IN THE US YOU COULD GET THEM WORLDWIDE ON THE INTERNET.

SO HOWEVER, SHE NOTES THAT CERTAIN STATES LIKE THE VERY SOUTHERN SKATES THAT -- STATES THAT CRIMINALIZE ABORTION, WOMEN THAT HAVE ABORTIONS WHO ARE POOR ARE PROSECUTE THAN WOMEN WHO ARE WELL-TO-DO AND THAT WILL HAPPEN.

>> YOU'RE RIGHT TO BRING UP WHAT YOU SAID BECAUSE THE WORLD HAS CHANGED DRAMATICALLY SINCE 1973 WHEN ROE WAS FIRST DECIDED.

THERE ARE OTHER ALTERNATIVES.

WE DON'T WANT THEM TO GO TO BACK ALLEY ABORTION AND IF WE DON'T -- >> WHY DON'T YOU SAY THAT -- ASK THE EVANGELICAL CHRISTIANS RUNNING YOUR PARTY RIGHT NOW BECAUSE THEY HAVE BEEN ON TV AND ON THE RADIO.

>> I UNDERSTAND THAT.

>> AND IN THE NEWSPAPERS SAYING, THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT THEY WANT.

>> BUT I WONDER -- >> THEY CONTROL SOME PRECEDENT.

>> THEY THOUGHT DAVID SUTER WAS GOING TO BE WITH HIM AND HE WAS NOT AND I WAS RIGHT ABOUT IT AGAIN.

LET ME PRICKET THIS RIGHT HERE AND RIGHT NOW.

>> PLEASE.

>> IF WE GET SOMEBODY WHO IS NOT GOOD ON PRECEDENT YOU'RE GOING TO SEE ROBERTS IN PARTICULAR SWITCH AND BECOME THE KENNEDY OF THE COURT.

>> I DON'T UNDERSTAND AFTER 17 MONTHS WHY PEOPLE DON'T BELIEVE TRUMP IN WHAT HE SAYS.

HE ALREADY SAID HE BELIEVES THERE SHOULD BE SOME KIND OF PUNISHMENT FOR WOMEN WHO SEEK ABORTIONS.

THIS IS THE REACH -- >> IF THERE WAS A TOTAL BAN.

>> LET ME FINISH I LET YOU FINISH LET ME FINISH.

>> LET HER FINISH.

LET HER FIRST FINISH.

>> EXCUSE ME.

>> I DON'T WANT TO ARGUE ABOUT THIS.

>> I DON'T EITHER.

>> GO AHEAD.

>> I THINK THAT TRUMP IS VERY CLEAR ABOUT HIS -- WHAT HE IS GOING TO BE DOING AND THAT IS THE RESEARCH THE EVANGELICALS BACKED HIM FOR WHAT HE'S DOING TO THE COURT.

>> SINCE WE'RE -- >> I ACTUALLY COVERED THE COURT FOR NINE YEARS IN THE LATE 90S AND I ALWAYS USED TO BELIEVE SEEING THE BALANCE THAT WAS UP THERE THAT EVEN THOUGH SOME CONSERVATIVES ON THE COURT MIGHT WANT TO SEE ROE OVERTURNED THEY WOULDN'T DO IT BECAUSE OF THE REACTIONS THAT THEY WOULD GET FROM THE LEFT.

MILLENNIALS, GEN XYZ WHO ALWAYS LIVED WITH ABORTION RIGHTS, THEY WERE AFRAID WOULD TAKE TO THE STREETS AND PROTEST LIKE CRAZY.

BUT THIS CROWD IS DIFFERENT.

IT'S TOTALLY DIFFERENT.

IT'S MUCH FARTHER RIGHT THAN ANY OTHER PRESIDENCY OF MY LIFETIME AND PROBABLY IN THE LAST -- YOU KNOW, UNTIL THE MIDDLE OF THE LAST, YOU KNOW, MILL LIMBIUM -- NOT MILLENNIUM BUT DEC -- HUNDRED YEARS.

SO WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS?

YOU'RE IN THE PARTY, WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> IN MY OPINION I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I FOCUS ON WITH THE SUPREME COURT ESPECIALLY THIS IS OBVIOUSLY A SIGNIFICANT NOMAN AND THIS GENERATION AND THE FUTURE OF THE ACTUAL COURT AND LEVERS THAT REPUBLICANS AND THE RIGHT WILL HAVE ON SIGNIFICANT ISSUES LIKE AFFIRMATIVE ACTION AND CIVIL RIGHTS, ET CETERA.

MY BIGGER CONCERN WHAT WE SHOULD BE PAYING ATTENTION TO IS WHEN THE COURT BECOMES A 6-3 COURT INSTEAD OF A 5-4 COURT YOU.

TALK ABOUT THAT SENATOR AND THAT IDEA THAT KENNEDY WAS WAY FIREWALL ON IMPORTANT ISSUES EVEN THOUGH HE WAS A CONSERVE.

>> INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS.

>> CORRECT.

IN MY MINDSET I THINK YOU HAVE TO WORRY IF YOU'RE A LIBERAL ABOUT THE FACT THAT YOU COULD HAVE ANOTHER APPOINTMENT AND THEN YOUR FUTURE.

THIS IS THE FIRST OF MANY AND I THINK DESPITE CONTRARY BELIEF THERE IS A A REASONABLE ASSUMPTION HE WOULD NOMINATE A WOMAN AND THAT MAY PROVIDE SOME LEVEL OF A BACKSTOP TO GIVE SOME PEOPLE COMFORT BUT I HAVE A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF ANXIETY.

>> VERY MANY CONSERVATIVE WOMEN AND -- >> BUT I AGREE WITH ANN YOU CANNOT SIT HERE AND SAY SOMEONE A CONSERVATIVE THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO DO.

THAT IS THE OTHER PARTED THIS.

WHETHER THEY'RE A WOMAN OR WHATEVER WE HAVE LOOKED AT KENNEDY ON THINGS LIKE GAY-RIGHTS.

HE WAS OBVIOUSLY NOT PROGRESSIVE BUT HE DID A LOT OF THINGS THAT CONSERVATIVE THAT -- GAY MARRIAGE.

>> LATIFA.

>> LAST WEEK'S DECISIONS WERE A FORECAST.

UNLIKE MANY OF HIS VOTES IN THE PAST, KENNEDY ESSENTIALLY SIDED WITH MOST OF -- ALL THE DECISIONS THAT CAME OUT OF THE LAST SESSION WITH THE CONSERVATIVES AND I THINK THAT THAT WAS A PREVIEW.

ONE OF THE VERY PARTICULAR CASES THAT I THINK IS IMPORTANT FOR THIS DEBATE IS AROUND CRISIS PREGNANCY CENTERS.

FOR EXAMPLE, THAT WASN'T ABOUT ROE VERSUS WADE BUT IT WAS ABOUT THE ABILITY IN REMOTE AREAS WHERE WOMEN DON'T HAVE ANY REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH, YOU HAVE CRISIS, QUOTE-UNQUOTE CENTERS MASQUERADING AS CLINICS AND THERE ARE WOMEN NOT JUST ACCESSING ABORTION SERVICES BUT HAVING TROUBLE ACCESSING BIRTH CONTROL, OBSTETRICIAN -- OBSTETRICS CARE, EXCUSE ME, AND I THINK THAT THERE ARE BEYOND THIS ISSUE OF ROE VERSUS WADE, THERE ARE MULTITUDE OF THINGS AND I THINK KENNEDY'S DECISIONS, YOU KNOW, THE LAST VOTE GAVE US A GLIMPSE INTO WHAT THOSE THINGS COULD LOOK LIKE.

>> WHY DID YOU SAY -- I'M CURIOUS, ANN, AND YOU RAN AND I DON'T THINK I HAVE ANY MORE, REPUBLICANS FOR CHOICE FOR MANY YEARS WE SHOULD NOTE.

BUT WHY DID YOU BRING UP THAT HE WILL NOMINATE A WOMAN BECAUSE WE NOW KNOW THAT HE COULD NOMINATE A VERY CONSERVATIVE WOMAN AND -- >> SURE.

>> IT WOULDN'T MAKE A DIFFERENCE AND REPUBLICANS ALWAYS SAY, OH, I MEAN, THE WOMEN ALWAYS SAY, WE'RE NO DIFFERENT.

>> THERE ARE CONSERVATIVES AND THERE ARE CONSERVATIVE.

I DO THINK IT WILL BE A WOMAN BECAUSE THE OPTICTION WILL BE GREAT AND HE HAS SIX -- >> INDIVIDUALS NOT OPTIC.

>> YEAH.

I THINK SIX OUT OF 25 THAT HE'S LOOKING AT ARE FEMALE.

AND THERE IS SOME REALLY GOOD ONE THERE IS AND I THINK THAT IS A VERY LIKELY THING AND AGAIN, THERE ARE CONSERVATIVES AND CONSERVATIVE.

SUTER WAS SUPPOSED TO BE SO CONSERVATIVE WHEN THEY APPOINTED HIM AND I KEPT SAYING, NAH, HE'S GOING TO BE WITH US.

I'M GETTING THE SAME SORT OF READ OUT THAT EITHER THAT WILL HAPPEN OR WE'LL HAVE ONE OF THE SITTING JUSTICE BECAUSE THE VIOLATION OF PRECEDENT IS SOMETHING THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN VERY OFTEN ON THE SUPREME COURT AND I THINK ROBERTS WILL MOVE OVER JUST AS HE DID ON OBAMA CARE.

>> ALL RIGHT.

LET US KNOW WHAT YOU THINK.

PLEASE FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER.

AND@BONNIEERBEAND@TOTHECONTRARY: FROM SCOTUS TO THE PROGRESSIVE DEMS.

>> BONNIE: IN WHAT COULD BECOME A PIVOTAL MOMENT IN LIBERAL POLITICS, A 28 YEAR OLD LATINA AND DEMOCRATIC SOCIALIST OUSTED A 10-TERM INCUMBENT CONGRESSMAN.

ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ, RUNNING HER FIRST CAMPAIGN, DEFEATED REPRESENTATIVE JOE CROWLEY IN A PRIMARY IN NEW YORK.

CROWLEY, THE FOURTH RANKING DEMOCRAT IN THE HOUSE OUTRAISED HER BY 10-TO-1, BUT CORTEZ ENERGIZED VOTERS WITH A STRONG GRASSROOTS CAMPAIGN.

CORTEZ, AN ACTIVIST, RAN TO CROWLEY'S LEFT ON ISSUES SUCH AS IMMIGRATION AND HEALTHCARE.

CROWLEY'S LOSS HAS BEEN COMPARED TO FORMER GOP MAJORITY LEADER ERIC CANTOR'S LOSS TO AN INSURGENT, TEA PARTY-BACKED CANDIDATE IN 2014.

POLITICAL FORECASTERS ARE ASKING WHETHER THIS IS THE START OF A SEA CHANGE IN LIBERAL SPHERES AS WE NEAR THE MIDTERM ELECTIONS.

YOUNG VOTERS NOW MAKE UP A LARGER PERCENTAGE OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY THAN THEY HAVE IN THE LAST 20 YEARS, AND THEY ARE MORE LIKELY TO IDENTIFY AS SOCIALIST.

>> ANN, IN THE UPCOMING MID TERMS WHO IS -- THEIR FAR LEFT REPRESENTED BY THIS WOMAN WHO WON THE PRIMARY OR REPUBLICANS?

>> DEFINITELY THE LEFT WING OF THE PARTY WHICH IS DRAGGING IT FARTHER AND FARTHER FROM THE MAINSTREAM.

WHEN MORE POLICIES ARE ILLUMINATED BY REPUBLICAN ADS IT IS GOING TO BE A REAL PROBLEM FOR THEM.

JUST THE INTERNAL BATTLE THEY HAVE ON THE DEMOCRATIC SIDE IS NOT HELPFUL FOR THEM.

>> I DO THINK THAT THE GALVANIZING, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT OCASIO SAID IN RESPONSE TO HER WIN WAS, THEY'RE MOBILIZING FOLKS WHO DON'T VOTE.

PART OF OUR POLLING PROBLEM AS SHE POINTED OUT IS THAT WE'RE POLLING THE EXPECTED, YOU KNOW, OFF MAINSTREAM PRIMARY, NOT A PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION YEAR.

SHE HAD TEENAGERS OUT VOTING FOR HER FOR THE FIRST TIME.

WE HAVE TO MOBILIZE -- >> BEST OF YOUR RECOLLECTION YOU, THEY SAID THAT ABOUT OBAMA AND IT DIDN'T HAPPEN AND ANYWHERE NEAR ENOUGH NUMBERS TO MAKE IT SIGNIFICANT.

>> UH-HUH.

WELL, THIS IS A COUPLE OF THINGS ABOUT THIS.

THIS IS MY MOTHER'S DISTRICT WHERE A LOT OF MY FAMILY LIVE AND IT IS ADJACENT TO WHERE I GREW UP.

>> AND I GREW UP IN MANHATTAN.

>> NOT NAMING ANY NAMES, I THINK IT IS SEND EGG MESSAGE TIE LOT OF FOLKS THAT THE AIR APPEARANCE OF OUR TIME HOW WE THINK ABOUT POLITICS IS STARTING TO CHANGE.

JUST NEXT DOOR WE'VE GOT, YOU JU KNOW, ANGLES DISTRICT, WE HAVE SERRANO AND FOLKS WHO HAVE BEEN -- AND A FEW THAT WAS ESSENTIALLY HE WAS REPRESENTING PEOPLE WHO WERE MAJORITY MINORITY AS WE SAY AND I THINK THAT THE DEMOGRAPHICS HAVE CHANGED, THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY AND FOLKS IN THOSE POSITIONS HAVE NOT BEEN KEEPING UP WITH THE CHANGES IN THEIR DISTRICT AND IS REPRESENTING THE PEOPLE IS WHAT IS MOVING FOLKS.

I DON'T THINK THAT IT IS LIBERAL OR NOT AT THIS POINT.

THERE IS A CRISIS OF CONFIDENCE IN OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS AND I THINK THAT THAT IS WHAT IS GOING TO MOTIVATE PEOPLE TO MAKE A CHANGE IN OUR PARTY.

>> JEN, YOUR THOUGHTS.

>> I'M INTERESTED SOMEONE LIKE OCASIO CORTEZ ONE BEING YOUNG, THE KIND OF CANDIDATE YOU WANT TO SEE IN THE SENSE SHE'S YOUNG AND SHE'S A MINORITY AND SHE'S OUTSPOKEN AND SHE DIDN'T RAISE MONEY BUT DID ENTIRELY GRASSROOTS EFFORT.

WHAT CONCERNS ME SHE'S A SOCIALIST AND WE TALK ABOUT THE PARTY AND ISSUES DEMOCRATS HAVE YOU SEE THE ISSUE MOVING TO THE LEFT AND THERE WAS A STAT THAT THE MAJORITY OF YOUNG PEOPLE UNDER 30 DON'T BELIEVE IN CAPITALISM.

YOU'RE STARTING TO SEAT PATTERNS OF BEHAVIOR WHERE I WONDER IF CANDIDATES LIKE OCASIO CORTEZ ARE THE NOT THE AVERAGE BUT THE OPPOSITE OF THAT.

SO I THINK THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT A ENVIRONMENT WHERE I DON'T KNOW THAT YOU CAN COUNT AS MORE OF AN ANOMALY THAN A TREND.

>> DO YOU THINK BERNIE SANDERS HURTS THE DEMOCRATS?

>> I THINK THE DEMOCRATS HAVE A LOT OF PROBLEMS AND I THINK OCASIO PERSONIFIES THAT EVERYTHING WE NEED TO DO, FOCUS ON MESSAGING, FOCUS ON PEOPLE OF COLOR AND FOCUS ON YOUNG PEOPLE.

>> BUT WHAT ABOUT HER -- DO OLDER DEMOCRATS VOTE IN VERY LARGE NUMBERS, TOO, THEY DON'T WANT SOCIALISM AND MODERATES THE SUBURBAN DEMOCRATS DON'T WANT SOCIALISM.

>> I THINK THERE IS A REAL POWER PUSH GOING ON IN THE PARTY RIGHT NOW.

I THINK IN MANY WAYS WE'RE STILL KIND OF RECOVERING AND HAVING AN IDENTITY CRISIS FROM THE ELECTIONS AND I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT THAT SHE IS REALLY KIND OF REGALVANIZING THE PARTY ON THINGS THAT WE NEED TO FOCUS ON.

>> SHE'S 60 YEARS YOUNGER THAN THE LEADERSHIP IN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

LET THAT SINK IN.

60 YEARS YOUNGER.

>> RIGHT BUT -- >> WOW.

>> BUT I GREW UP, YOU KNOW, A VERY HARD LEFT LIBERAL IN NEW YORK CITY DURING THE 60s AND I WENT TO VIETNAM WAR PROTEST AND I DID EVERYTHING ELSE THAT TEENAGERS IN THE 60s DID, BUT WE WEREN'T TALKING ABOUT SOCIALISM.

>> NO.

>> THERE WAS A WAVE OF INTEREST IN POLITICS AT THAT TIME LIKE NOW FROM YOUNG -- AMONG YOUNG PEOPLE BUT WE WEREN'T THAT -- WE WERE DIFFERENT FROM OUR PARENTS.

WE ARE MORE CONCERNED ABOUT OVERPOPULATION, WE WERE MORE CONCERNED ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENT CERTAINLY.

BUT NOT ON OFFICIAL ISSUES AND I JUST THINK THIS COULD BE THE DEMOCRATS UNDOING.

>> WELL, I THINK THAT PART OF WHAT WE'RE SEEING ACROSS THE COUNTRY IS THAT THERE ARE CANDIDATES WHO ARE TRYING TO DIG BENEATH THE SURFACE OF WHAT WE THINK OF AS WHO GOES TO THE POLLS AND HOW THESE CAMPAIGNS WORK AND WHAT WE'VE SEEN IN VARIOUS RACE, YOU KNOW, STACY ABRAM, LOTS OF FOLKS, WOMEN OF COLORANTS COUNTRY WHO ARE SPEAKING TO A -- >> BUT WHO UNLIKE OCASIO CORTEZ DOESN'T HAVE A CHANCE.

>> WELL, I THINK THAT AGAIN SOME OF THESE FOLKS ARE GOING TO DO WELL AND NOT.

I THINK PEOPLE WOULD HAVE ARGUED THAT SHE DIDN'T -- OCASIO CORTEZ DIDN'T HAVE A CHANCE EITHER.

YOU KNOW, SOME OF THIS COMES DOWN TO ORGANIZING AND SOME OF THIS COMES DOWN, TO YOU KNOW, CAMPAIGNS AND STRATEGIES AND HOW WELL YOU KNOW YOUR DISTRICT.

I THINK THE MOST COMPELLING THING ABOUT THIS RACE IS THAT IT WAS VERY GRASSROOTS AND IT WAS VERY OF THE PEOPLE AND I THINK THERE ARE SOME FOLKS WHO WERE VERY VULNERABLE IN THEIR DISTRICTS BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO LONGER REPRESENTED WHO LIVES BACK IN THEIR DISTRICT AND THIS GUY WAS A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF THIS.

THERE IS LOTS OF REPORTS THAT HE'S VERY MUCH NOT IN DISTRICT.

HIS KIDS DON'T GO TO SCHOOL THERE.

YOU KNOW, THAT IS NOT NECESSARILY THE CASE ALL AROUND -- >> HE DIDN'T SHOW UP FOR DEBATE.

>> RIGHT.

BUT I THINK THAT THERE ARE POCKETS OF PLACES WHERE, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE REALLY MOVED WAY FROM OUR CONSTITUENTS AND THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF SPEAKING TO THE FOLKS AND MEETING THEM WHERE THEY ARE.

>> OKAY.

>> BONNIE: BEHIND THE HEADLINES: JEMELE HILL HAS BEEN LAUDED FOR HER WORK AS A SPORTSWRITER WHO DOESN'T SHY AWAY FROM SOCIAL AND POLITICAL ISSUES.

RECENTLY, SHE WAS NAMED JOURNALIST OF THE YEAR BY THE NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLACK JOURNALISTS.

BUT SHE'S EARNED HER FAIR SHARE OF CRITICS TOO, PRESIDENT TRUMP AMONG THEM.

QUOTE ESPN IS PAYING A REALLY BIG PRICE FOR ITS POLITICS, END QUOTE.

TWEETED PRESIDENT TRUMP, THIS AFTER JEMELE HILL HILL, A PART OF IT'S PENINSULA'S FLAGSHIP SHOW SPORTS CENTER CALLED HIM A WHITE SUPREMACISTS.

>> WHEN I STARTED AS A SPORTSWRITER I NEVER LOOKED AT IT AS SEEING MYSELF AS USING A PLATFORM TO ACCOMPLISH ANYTHING OTHER THAN THE JOURNAL IF ITIC BASICS OF ACCURACY, FAIRNESS AND TRUTH.

BUT OVER TIME, WHAT YOU DISCOVER IS THAT YOUR ABILITY TO BRING AWARENESS OR ATTENTION TO CERTAIN ISSUES IS THE ACTIVISM IN ITSELF.

>> BONNIE: HILL WAS SUSPENDED FOR TWO WEEKS FOR VIOLATING ESPN'S SOCIAL MEDIA POLICY.

SHE EVENTUALLY MOVED AWAY FROM HOSTING SPORTSCENTER AND TOWARDS WRITING FOR THE ESPN WEBSITE CALLED THE UNDEFEATED.

>> JEMELE: THE ENTIRE MISSION OF THE SITE IS TO COVER THE INTERSECTION BETWEEN RACE, SPORTS, AND CULTURE.

I'M IN A NATURAL HOME THAT ALLOWS ME TO WRITE ABOUT SIGNIFICANT, IMPORTANT ISSUES THROUGH THE LENS OF SPORTS, AND IT'S SOMETHING I'VE ALWAYS WANTED TO DO.

IT'S SOMETHING I'VE DONE THROUGHOUT MY CAREER.

>> BONNIE: HILL IS ONE OF THE MOST VISIBLE BLACK WOMEN IN THE SPORTSWRITING FIELD.

>> JEMELE: THERE'S A LOT OF INDUSTRIES IN THIS COUNTRY THAT ARE MALE-DOMINATED BUT SPORTS IS VERY DIFFERENT BECAUSE IT'S NOT JUST DOMINATED, IT ALSO, EVERYTHING ABOUT IT IS DECIDEDLY MALE, THE FEEL OF IT, THE TEXTURE OF IT.

SPORTS HAS BEEN CONDITIONED OR PRESENTED TO US IN POSITION IN OUR SOCIETY AS SOMETHING MEN DO, AND YOU KNOW WHAT HAPPENS I THINK IS, THAT THE PRESENCE OF WOMEN THERE'S THIS AUTOMATIC QUESTIONING: IT WAS ALWAYS IMPORTANT IN MY CAREER THAT I HAD A SENSE OF BELONGING.

I WAS LUCKY BECAUSE I HAD THAT EARLY AND AS A RESULT I NEVER THOUGHT THAT SPORTS WAS SOMETHING THAT I SHOULDN'T BE DOING BECAUSE I WAS A WOMAN.

>> BONNIE: STATISTICS SHOW, 90 PERCENT OF SPORTS EDITORS ARE WHITE AND 90 PERCENT ARE MALE.

>> I OFTEN TELL YOUNGER FEMALE JOURNAL IT'S THAT WANT TO GET INTO SPORTS, THERE ARE SOME THINGS UNFORTUNATELY YOU HAVE TO PUT UP WITH IF YOU WANT TO CONTINUE TO MAKE YOUR WAY IN THIS CAREER.

I MEAN, YOU'RE GOING TO BE HELD TIE DIFFERENT STANDARD AT TIMES.

CRITICIZED MORE AT TIMES AND IT CAN BE TOUGH AT TIMES.

BUT ULTIMATELY, YOU KNOW, IT IS REWARDING BECAUSE YOU'RE DOING SOMETHING THAT YOU LOVE TO DO.

>> BONNIE: SHE HAS BEEN ONE OF THE NFL'S SHARPEST CRITICS WHEN IT COMES TO ITS POLICIES AGAINST PROTESTING POLICE VIOLENCE DURING THE NATIONAL ANTHEM.

RECENTLY, TEAM OWNERS AGREED ON NEW GUIDELINES THAT PUNISH PLAYERS AND TEAMS FOR KNEELING DURING THE ANTHEM.

>> WHAT THEY'VE DISCOVERED IS THAT THEY CAN'T CONTROL THIS NARRATIVE.

THEY'VE OPENLY CHALLENGED THE DIGNITY OF THEIR PLAYERS, AND MADE THEM FEEL SUPPRESSED, AND SO NOW IF YOU'RE A PLAYER AND YOU WEREN'T THINKING ABOUT PROTESTING NOW YOU MAY DO IT JUST ON PRINCIPLE.

>> BONNIE: NEW YORK TIMES REPORTER, GREG HOWARD, SAID THE SUBSECTION OF THE BACKLASH SHE RECEIVED AFTER SPEAKING OUT ABOUT THIS ISSUE WAS, SOCIETY, "WHO SAID THIS BLACK WOMAN CAN MOUTH OFF?"

END QUOTE.

>> THERE ARE PERCEPTIONS ABOUT BLACK WOMEN BEING ANGRY, TOO AGGRESSIVE, YOU KNOW ALL THOSE THINGS, THAT AT SOME POINT, IN TERMS OF HOW PEOPLE CHARACTERIZE YOU, THEY DO COME INTO -- INTO PLAY.

AND AS IF WE'RE BEING MORE FORCEFUL THAN ANYBODY ELSE.

IT'S JUST ONE OF THOSE UNFORTUNATE STEREOTYPES AND PERCEPTIONS THAT YOU HAVE TO DEAL WITH, BECAUSE IT'S SOMETHING I'M AWARE OF, BUT SOMETHING I DON'T CAPITULATE TO.

IT'S NOT GONNA STOP ME FROM GIVING MY OPINION.

>> SOY, JEN, DOES SHE HELP AFRICAN-AMERICAN IN SPORTS OR HURT THEM BY CROSSING OVER THE LINE INTO COVERING POLITICS AND MAKING PUBLIC HER OPINION ABOUT POLITICAL ISSUES.

>> SURE.

I'M THE FIRST PERSON TO WATCH THE OSCARS OR ANY CELEBRITY BEING OUTSPOKEN AND SAY STAY IN YOUR LANE.

WHY ARE YOU'RE TALKING THIS?

BUT I THINK MISS HILL HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK ABOUT CULTURE AND A PLACE THAT IS WHITE MALE DOMINATED.

I WOULD BE STUNNED IF SHE DID NOT SAY SOMETHING AND WAS NOT OUTSPONGE.

IF IT WAS GOOD FOR ESPN OR NOT, AS AN AFRICAN-AMERICAN WOMAN I WOULD HAVE BEEN STUNNED AND I THINK IT IS UNFORTUNATE THAT SHE WAS PUNISHED FOR THAT.

>> DO YOU AGREE?

>> YES, MUCH RESPECT FOR JEMELE HILL.

TRUMP HAS A CLEAR PATTERN REALLY NOT LIKING NOT ONLY WHEN PEOPLE CRITICIZE HIM BUT WHEN WOMEN CRITICIZE HIM AND WOMEN OF COLOR.

SO BEING -- SPEAKING OUT IN SUCH A POLITICAL ISSUE AND HAVING THE PRESIDENT ATTACK YOU AND SUSPEND YOU FROM YOUR WORK I HAVE A LOT OF RESPECT FOR HER.

>> WHAT ABOUT THE FACT HE MADE HER CAREER.

WHO COULD BE SMART ENOUGH TO KNOW THAT HE SHOULD KEEP HIS MOUTH SHUT ON TWITTER ESPECIALLY ABOUT RELATIVE UNKNOWNS HE'S GOING TO MAKE THEM FAMOUS DO.

MORE FOR THEIR CAREER THAN THEY COULD HAVE EVER DONE FOR THEMSELVES.

>> I DON'T CARE IF SHE EXPRESSES HER OPINION BUT AMERICAN PEOPLE DON'T LIKE POLITICS MIXED IN WITH THEIR SPORTS.

WE HAVE SEEN THAT.

SO WHETHER -- >> BUT WHO COMMENTED ON HURLSE PERSONAL INSULTS AT PEOPLE WHO ARE OTHERWISE RELATIVELY INSIGNIFICANT AND THEN MAKES THEM SIGNIFICANT.

>> HE'S EQUAL OPPORTUNITY OFFENDER.

>> THERE ARE A LOT -- >> THAT DOESN'T MAKE IT OKAY.

>> NO.

YOU KNOW, SPORTS -- I HAVE TO SAY ESPECIALLY TODAY IT IS RIDDLED WITH POLITICS.

>> POLITICS.

>> THE IDEA THAT WE DON'T HAVE POLITICS IN SPORTS IS RIDICULOUS.

>> AND SHE IS TELLING -- >> WAIT, WAIT.

>> THE POLICY THAT SHE HAS IS ONE QUESTION BUT AS A PERSON WHO LITERALLY IS AT THE MARGINS OF THIS FIELD TO NOT HAVE THAT INTERSECTION PLAY OUT AT SOME POINT IS REALISTIC.

>> WE HAVE SEEN THAT -- >> WITH ALL -- >> AND WE HAVE SEEN THE ATTENDANCE DECLINE CROSS THE SPORTS WHERE THERE HAS BEEN MORE POLITICIAN INTRODUCED.

>> WHY -- >> THIS DAY AND AGE ARE SPORTS EDITORS AND WRITERS STILL 90% MALE AND WHITE?

>> THAT IS A GOOD QUESTION.

>> I DON'T GET THAT.

>> THAT IS A GOOD QUESTION.

>> HOW COULD THAT HAPPEN?

>> EVERY ELECTION -- >> ARE YOU REALLY GOING TO TAKE MY OLD WHITE MAN LINE FROM ME?

I THOUGHT YOU HATED THAT.

THEY'RE EVERY WHERE THIS BONNIE.

THEY DOMINATE EVERYTHING.

>> NOT EVERY FIELD IN THIS DAY AND AGE.

CERTAINLY, I MEAN, 30 YEARS AGO THEY WERE NOT 90% OF MY LAW SCHOOL CLASS.

>> ABOUT TO BE 90% OF THE SUPREME COURT UNLESS IT IS MAGICAL WOMAN APPEARS.

>> YOUR THOUGHTS?

>> MY THOUGHTS FOR THAT, YOU KNOW, THIS IS A FIELD WHILE THE PLAYERS AND EVEN THE CONSUMERS DEFINITELY ARE NOT ALL WHITE OR IN ANY WAY.

YOU KNOW, THE COMMUNITY AND THE PEOPLE WHO ARE IN CHARGE AND RUN AND HOLD THE PURSES AND MANAGE ARE BY AND LARGE WHITE MEN AND, SO, THEY'RE THE ONES WHO WERE TELLING THE STORES AND ONES PICKING THE PLAYERS AN ONES WRITING THE CHECKS.

>> THAT IS A FIELD THAT CLEARLY ITS BOSSES NEED A LITTLE BIT OF EDUCATION.

>> BONNIE: THAT'S IT FOR THIS EDITION.

PLEASE FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER @BONNIEERBE AND @TOTHECONTRARY AND WHETHER YOU AGREE OR THINK TO THE CONTRARY, SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.

FOR A TRANSCRIPT OR SEE AN ONLINE VERSION OF THIS EPISODE TO THE CONTRARY PLEASE VISIT OUR PBS WEBSITE: PBS.ORG/TOTHECONTRARY.

>> BE