>>> WE WILL NOT BE SATISFIED UNTIL JUSTICE ROLLS DOWN LIKE WATERS AND RIGHTEOUSNESS LIKE A MIGHTY STREAM.

MARTIN LUTHER KING JR.

DELIVERED THOSE WORDS DURING HIS ICONIC "I HAVE A DREAM" SPEECH AT THE MARCH ON WASHINGTON WHICH HAPPENED 60 YEARS AGO ON AUGUST 28th.

IN THE 55 YEARS SINCE HIS DEATH, KING IS OFTEN QUOTED AND REVERED, AN ICON HIMSELF, BUT IN HIS NEW BOOK "KING, A LIFE," AUTHOR JONATHAN IKE DRAWS KING AS A MAN, NOT A SAINT, NOT A SYMBOL, DELIVERING FAR MORE NUANCE THAT HISTORY HAS DONE.

HIS BOOK IS THE LATEST INSTALLMENT THE IN OUR BLACK BOOK CLUB SERIES AND THE AUTHOR JOINS US NOW.

WELCOME BACK TO "CHICAGO TONIGHT."

>> THANKS.

>> OBVIOUSLY NO SMALL AMOUNT OF WORDS HAVE BEEN WRITTEN ABOUT MARTIN LUTHER KING JR., BUT YOUR BOOK IS DIFFERENT.

>> I WANTED TO WRITE A MORE INTIMATE PORTRAIT BUT ALSO ONE THAT RESTORED HIS TRUE RADICAL NATURE.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT'S HAPPENED SINCE THE MARCH ON WASHINGTON AND SINCE HIS DEATH, WE'VE TURNED HIM INTO A NATIONAL HOLIDAY AND MONUMENT, BUT IN THE PROCESS WE'VE WATERED DOWN HIS MESSAGE AND WE'VE FORGOTTEN HE WAS HUMAN, THAT HE STRUGGLED, HAD DOUBTS, THAT HE SUFFERED, THAT HE EXPERIENCED MOMENTS OF UNCERTAINTY AND I WANTED TO WRITE A BOOK THAT MADE HIM FEEL MORE RELATABLE.

>> THE BOOK INCLUDES DETAILS FROM AN UNPUBLISHED MEMOIR WRITTEN BY HIS FATHER, OBVIOUSLY HUGELY INFLUENTIAL IN HIS LIFE.

WHAT DID YOU LEARN ABOUT THE KIND OF FATHER THAT DADDY KING, AS HE WAS CALLED, THE KIND OF FATHER HE WAS AND HOW THAT WOULD INFLUENCE MARTIN LUTHER KING JR. AS AN ADULT?

>> DADDY KING WAS A TOUGH GUY.

HE WALKED OFF THE FARM.

HE WAS BORN INTO A SHARE CROPPING FAMILY IN STOCKBRIDGE, GEORGIA, AT THE AGE OF 12 OR 13 WALKED OFF THE FARM WITH HIS SHOES TIED TOGETHER AND SLUNG OVER HIS SHOULDER SO HE WOULDN'T WALK THEM OUT WALKING BAREFOOT TOWARDS ATLANTA WHERE HE BASICALLY REINVENTED HIMSELF AND NOT ONLY TAUGHT HIMSELF TO READ, BUT BECAME A PASTOR AND TOOK OVER EBENEZER BAPTIST CHURCH AND MADE IT POSSIBLE FOR MARTIN LUTHER KING JR. TO BE WHO HE WAS, LITERALLY RENAMED HIM.

THEY WERE BOTH NAMED MICHAEL KING.

HE CREATES AN ENVIRONMENT WHERE HIS SON CAN DREAM OF ACCOMPLISHING THE KINDS OF CHANGES THAT A PREVIOUS GENERATION COULD ONLY DREAM ABOUT.

>> WE KIND OF SEE THROUGHOUT THE BOOK THERE WERE TIMES WHEN YOU WONDER IF ML, MARTIN LUTHER KING JR., WAS MAKING A DECISION BASED ON THE NEED TO IMPRESS HIS FATHER OR WERE THEY KIND OF COMPETING WITH EACH OTHER AT SOME POINT IN SOME WAYS.

I LEARNED A LOT.

HE PLAGIARIZED IN HIS EARLY WRITINGS.

HE HAD A SERIOUS RELATIONSHIP WITH A WHITE WOMAN BEFORE HE MET CORETTA SCOTT KING WHICH BLOWS A LOT OF PEOPLE AWAY, RIGHT?

BECAUSE AS LONG AS WE'VE KNOWN HIM, THEY'VE BEEN THE UNIT.

HE WAS CHARISMATIC BUT RESISTANT TO ELEVATING THE ROLE OF WOMEN IN THE MOVEMENT, HAD SOME EXTRAMARITAL AFFAIRS AND MAYBE SEVERAL RELATIONSHIPS BEFORE MARRIAGE AS WELL.

HOW DID YOU SORT OF NAVIGATE THE DIFFERENT IMAGES OF MARTIN LUTHER KING JR.?

>> YOU SUMMED IT UP VERY WELL, A LOT GOING ON THERE AND IT'S HARD.

HE LIVED ONLY 39 YEARS, BUT HE PACKED IN SO MUCH.

HE WAS A VERY COMPLICATED MAN.

HE WAS SOMEBODY WHO REALLY DIDN'T LIKE CONFLICT.

HE'S OUR GREATEST PROTEST LEADER AND HE DOESN'T LIKE CONFLICT AND I THINK SOME OF THAT COMES FROM HIS RELATIONSHIP WITH HIS FATHER, BUT YOU SEE IT WITH CORETTA, TOO, BECAUSE CORETTA WAS AN ACTIVIST BEFORE THEY EVEN MET.

CORETTA HAD MORE CREDENTIALS AS AN ACTIVIST THAN DID HE WHEN THEY MET, YET HE WAS RESISTANT TO LET HER GET INVOLVED IN THE MOVEMENT.

HE WANTED HER TO STAY HOME AND RAISE THE KIDS.

I TRY TO LEAN INTO ALL THAT COMPLEXITY AND NOT TRY TO SIMPLIFY THE MAN, LET THE READER DECIDE FOR THEMSELVES HOW THEY FEEL ABOUT HIS WEAKNESSES AND FLAWS AND HOW THAT FIGURES INTO HIS GREATNESS BECAUSE IT'S ALL TIED TOGETHER.

>> YOU ALSO, SPEAKING OF CORETTA, IT'S THE FIRST BIOGRAPHY TO TUESDAY THE AUDIOTAPES OF CORETTA SCOTT KING FROM HER RECOUNTING THEIR FIRST DATE TO PREPARING FOR DR. KING'S FUNERAL.

THAT SAID, I WANTED MORE CORETTA.

MAYBE I SHOULD GO READ HER BOOK, TOO BUT WHAT KIND OF INFLUENCE WAS SHE IN HIS LIFE?

>> I LOVE CORETTA.

I THINK THE REASON KING WAS ATTRACTED TO HER BECAUSE SHE'S SO STRONG AND OUTSPOKEN IN ACTIVISM.

WHEN KING WINS THE NOBEL PEACE PRIZE, CORETTA SAYS, "WE HAVE A GREATER RESPONSIBILITY NOW," NOT YOU," WE HAVE A GREATER RESPONSIBILITY TO TALK ABOUT HUMAN RIGHTS, INCOME INEQUALITY AND POVERTY, WAR," AND IT'S CORETTA REALLY SOMETIMES LEADING THE WAY.

I THINK THAT SHE DESERVES A LOT MORE CREDIT THAN SHE OFTEN GETS.

>> YOU WRITE ABOUT HIS TIME, OF COURSE, PROTESTING IN SLUMS AND SEGREGATED HOUSING IN CHICAGO AND HIS WORK WITH LOCAL LEADERS, ORGANIZING WITH THE CHICAGO HISTORIAN SAMUEL BLACK WHO WAS AT FIRST DOUBTFUL OF HIM IN POLITICS.

HERE WAS A CLIP OF HIM SPEAKING ON HIS TIME HERE.

>> I'VE BEEN IN MANY DEMONSTRATIONS ACROSS THE SOUTH, BUT I CAN SAY THAT I HAVE NEVER SEEN EVEN IN MISSISSIPPI AND ALABAMA MOBS AS HOSTILE AND AS HATE FILLED AS I'M SEEING IN CHICAGO.

>> CALLING CHICAGO THE MOB THAT HE SAW THAT DAY IN MARQUETTE PARK IN CHICAGO, MORE HATE FILLED THAN HE HAD SEEN ACROSS THE JIM CROW SOUTH.

WHAT DID HE LEARN FROM HIS TIME IN CHICAGO?

>> HE WAS TOLD BY MANY OF HIS CLOSEST ASSOCIATES NOT TO COME HERE, THEY THOUGHT HE DIDN'T KNOW WHAT HE WAS GETTING INTO AND THAT NORTHERN RACISM WAS MORE PERNICIOUS IN MANY WAYS BECAUSE IT WAS BETTER HIDDEN THAN THE RACISM HE ENCOUNTERED IN THE SOUTH.

I THINK WHEN KING LEFT HERE, HE WAS DEEPLY FRUSTRATED BUT DETERMINED HE WOULD NOT GIVE UP.

HE FELT LIKE MAYOR DALY WAS NOT DEALING SQUARE WITH HIM AND AGREED TO MEET A NUMBER OF IMPORTANT DEMANDS AND AS SOON AS KING LEFT TOWN, THOSE DEMANDS WERE IGNORED AND THAT'S SOMETHING WE LIVE WITH TODAY, THE LEGACY OF THAT FAILURE TO EMBRACE KING'S REFORMS.

>> HOW DID HIS VISIT TO CHICAGO AND STAYING IN NORTH LAWNDALE LATER REFLECT A SHIFTING MOVEMENT?

>> KING HELPED GET PASSAGE OF THE VOTING RIGHTS AND CIVIL RIGHTS ACT, BUT HE WAS NOT SATISFIED.

HE SAID NORTHERN SEGREGATION, NORTHERN RACISM WAS JUST AS BAD AND NEEDED TO BE ADDRESSED AND WHEN HE CAME HERE, HE LOST A LOT OF HIS SUPPORT.

A LOT OF THE WHITE NORTHERN LIBERALS WHO SENT MONEY, SENT CHECKS TO SUPPORT HIS WORK SUDDENLY LOST INTEREST AND THE SAME THING HAPPENED WHEN HE SPOKE OUT ABOUT THE VIETNAM WAR.

WE FORGET IN THE LAST THREE OR FOUR YEARS OF HIS LIFE, KING WAS FADING IN TERMS OF HIS POP POPULARITY AND PEOPLE DID NOT REALLY BELIEVE IN HIM.

IN THE MARCH ON WASHINGTON, 70% OF AMERICANS WERE AGAINST IT.

>> AND, IN FACT, JFK TOLD HIM HE'D BE MAKING A MISTAKE.

>> KENNEDY WAS AFRAID RIOTS WOULD BREAK OUT AND IT WOULD DAMAGE HIS SUPPORT IN THE SOUTH, THAT HE WOULD LOSE SUPPORT FOR ANY POTENTIAL CIVIL RIGHTS LEGISLATION, BUT KING OVER AND OVER TOLD PEOPLE IN POWER HE WOULD NOT WAIT, THAT YOU CAN'T KEEP ASKING PEOPLE TO WAIT WHEN YOU HAVEN'T BEEN DEALING WITH THEM SQUARELY TO BEGIN WITH.

>> WHAT DO YOU WANT PEOPLE TO TAKE AWAY FROM THERE BOOK?

>> I WANT PEOPLE TO REMEMBER KING WAS A MAN, HAD MOMENTS OF DOUBT AND HE BECOMES GREATER AS A HERO WHEN YOU THINK OF HIM THAT WAY AND IT ALSO MEANS WE CAN ASPIRE TO EMULATE HIM BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE TO BE PERFECT TO FIGHT OR WHAT WE BELIEVE IN.